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Thread: 401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

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    Default 401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

    Hello,

    401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

    From Henk's List -

    REPUBLIC of IRELAND
    SHEA, Jack - AC2c - 1177116 - RAFVR - 935 Balloon Sqn.
    Clonmacnoise (Old Abby) Graveyard, County of Offaly,Republic of Ireland.
    Death caused when he was knocked down by a motor vehicle.

    From CWGC -

    DENMARK
    CLEAK, Frederick Bernard - P/O - 77961 - RAFVR.
    Esbjerg (Fourfelt) Cemetery, Denmark.
    Wellington Ic - P9292 - 75 Sqn.

    GERMANY
    COSGROVE, William (Bill) (RepublicofIreland) - Sgt - 629330 - RAF.
    CHIVERS, Eugene George Frederick - F/Lt - 39183 - RAF.
    DAVIS, Francis William - Sgt - 745882 - RAFVR.
    HUGHES, Alan Joseph - Sgt - 653137 - RAF.
    JAMES, Raymond Wallace - Sgt - 637282 - RAF.
    McCONNELL, John Bretland - Sgt - 580972 - RAF.
    These six airmen rest at Becklingen War Cemetery, Niedersachsen, Germany.
    They were crew of Wellington I - L7809 - 38 Sqn.

    UK
    COOMBS, Herbert Martin - P/O - 84954 - RAFVR.
    Dyce Old Churchyard, Aberdeenshire.
    HUTSON, Frank - Sgt - 975183 - RAFVR.
    Sheffield (Crookes) Cemetery, Yorkshire.
    These two airmen were crew of Wellington I - L7775 - 20 OTU.

    MURFITT, Thomas Russell - P/O - 42759 - RAF.
    Newton-on-Ouse (All Saints) Churchyard, Yorkshire.
    SCOULAR, Ian Cowie - Sgt - 391870 - RNZAF.
    Newton-on-Ouse (All Saints) Churchyard, Yorkshire.
    These two airmen were crew of Whitley V - P5073 - 102 Sqn.

    KNOWLES, Henry - Sgt - 639811 - RAF.
    Tweedmouth Cemetery, Northumberland.
    Hudson I - N7257 - 233 Sqn.

    BURY-BURZYMSK, Jan - Porucznik(P/O) - P/0236 - PAF - VM V KL, ML.
    Leconfield (St.Catherine) Churchyard, Yorkshire.
    Hurricane I - V6807 - 303 Sqn.

    JAY, Dudley Trevor - P/O - 42063 - RAF - DFC, MiD.
    Exeter Higher Cemetery, Devon.
    Hurricane I - P3404 - 87 Sqn.

    STOODLEY, Donald Raymond - Sgt - 754215 - RAFVR.
    Salisbury (London Road) Cemetery, Wiltshire.
    Hurricane I - V7303 - 43 Sqn.

    CAMPBELL, Alexander Whyte - Sgt - 545658 - RAF.
    MOLE, Nigel Brook (Republic ofIreland) - F/Lt - 37779 - RAF.
    SHARVIN, John Edward Redmond (Northern Ireland) - Sgt - 550430 - RAF.
    SMITH, Douglas Albert James - Sgt - 742822 - RAFVR.
    These four airmen were crew of Hudson I - P5132 - 269 Sqn.

    FINLAYSON, William John - P/O - 39911 - RNZAF.
    GIBBS, Jack - Sgt - 625697 - RAF - DFM.
    HITCHMOUGH, William Grice - Sgt - 653978 - RAF.
    SANDERSON, Rex Martyn ( New Zealander) - P/O - 42727 - RAF.
    WHITE, Reginald William Bryant - Sgt - 755956 - RAFVR.
    These five airmen were crew of Wellington Ic - P9292 - 75 Sqn.

    The nine airmen named above are all commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial, Surrey.

    WEISS, Georg - GAF.
    Margate Cemetery, Kent.
    Cause of death ?

    BROENING, Helmut - GAF.
    HOFMANN, Erhard - GAF.
    MEYER, Erwin - GAF.
    These three German Airmen rest at Cannock Chase German Military Cemetery, Staffordshire.
    Cause of death ?

    Alex

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    Default Re: 401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Smart View Post
    UK
    COOMBS, Herbert Martin - P/O - 84954 - RAFVR.
    Dyce Old Churchyard, Aberdeenshire.
    HUTSON, Frank - Sgt - 975183 - RAFVR.
    Sheffield (Crookes) Cemetery, Yorkshire.
    These two airmen were crew of Wellington I - L7775 - 20 OTU.
    Alex,
    It is interesting that AIR81/3904:
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C16688002
    quotes the date of this crash as 23 Oct 40, which is at variance with the info held by the CWGC.
    Is anyone able to confirm the correct date please?
    Andy

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    Alex Smart (4th June 2022)

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    Default Re: 401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Smart View Post
    WEISS, Georg - GAF.
    Margate Cemetery, Kent.
    Cause of death ?
    Pilot of Bf109E-1 of 4./JG52, shot down over Dover on 14 August 40. His body was recovered from the sea in October.

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    Alex Smart (4th June 2022)

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    Default Re: 401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Smart View Post
    BROENING, Helmut - GAF.
    HOFMANN, Erhard - GAF.
    MEYER, Erwin - GAF.
    These three German Airmen rest at Cannock Chase German Military Cemetery, Staffordshire.
    Crew of Do215B-4 0060/L2+KS of 3.(F)/Aufkl.Gr.Obdl, crashed at Eaton Socon, Cambridgeshire

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    Alex Smart (4th June 2022)

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    Default Re: 401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

    Hello Andy,
    In regards to P/O. H,M,COOMBS.
    Same applies for Sgt F,HUTSON.

    Chorley has in BCL vol 7 "OTU's" page 32.
    24 October 1940
    Wellington Ia - L7775 - 20 OTU Training.
    T/o Lossiemouth for a night navigation sortie; base- Brechin-Kinnainds Head - Inverness-base.

    At roughly 2100, crashed into a hillside on Bruach Moor, 4 miles NW of Braemar, Aberdeenshire.

    This suggests that the take off was on the evening of the 24th.

    Any chance of the details in the ORB for a possible answer to which date is correct ?

    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 4th June 2022 at 21:45.

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    Default Re: 401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

    L7775

    F1180 has quite a few scored through changes
    Time initially 02:33 but overwritten to 01:33 then scored out and 22:00 added below overwritten to 21:00 - only constant was annotation Night

    Date as written is 23 but the figure 3 seems to have been overwritten on a previous figure that was scratch erased before 3 overwritten.

    For this month the ORB is a single page of 8 lines covering mostly state of aerodrome surface, visit and monthly summary of flying hrs, intake in/out numbers.

    Next month is similar detail in single page.

    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015 to 2022 - All rights reserved.

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    Default Re: 401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

    Thank you Ross,
    Had hoped that the ORB would have had more details.
    Alex

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    Default Re: 401024 - Unacounted Airmen - 24-10-1940

    Ross,
    Your scrutiny of the F1180 does provide a few clues.
    I think the time changes relate to a period of 5 hours and 33 minutes during the same night, ie it started by stating 0233 (on the 24th?) and ends up being brought forward by 5:33 to 2100 (on the 23rd?).
    This would also explain why the date 23 has been overwritten on a previous figure. It would have started off saying the 24th, and when the time was amended from 0133 to 2200, the date was consequently amended to the 23rd.
    The Form 78, viewable through:
    http://lancasterbombersinfo.ipage.co...ile/index.html
    records the missing date as 24.10.40.
    As we know, it is very common for this date to be the day after an aircraft's actual disappearance, particularly when night sorties are involved.
    It is far less common (in fact I can't think of another instance although I'm sure there may be the odd one) of a Casualty File such as:
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C16688002
    recording the date as earlier than the true case.
    All circumstantial of course, by I am minded to think that the 23 October 1940 is the correct date for this loss.
    Andy

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