Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Orleans, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 35 Times in 30 Posts

    Default ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    As I troll the London Gazette to fill in details of officers, I often encounter, upon their retirement, a phrase such as "Retired as Flight Lieutenant, retaining the rank of Squadron Leader" or variations - "retaining the rank of Wing Commander", etc. This appears to me that it is acknowledgement that sometime in their career they temporarily held a rank higher than their final rank. Am I correct ? And what does it entail anyway ? The right to wear uniforms with their older, superior rank on Remembrance Day parades ? The right to print the higher rank on their business or calling cards ? I would imagine that it does NOT entail added pension benefits. Please, may someone elucidate ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    6,993
    Thanks
    418
    Thanked 456 Times in 409 Posts

    Default Re: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    My understanding is that only ranks above and including Sqn Ldr could be used by individuals who had left the service

    Some people got temp ranks (war substantive) above there official ranks and reverted to original last official rank on war ending or completion of service = this is recognition that they held a higher rank at some point and thus could use it for various reasons post war including what you list

    So Flt Lt John Doe may have been Sqn Ldr (war subs) or even Temp Sqn Ldr John Doe and reverted back to Flt Lt

    and when he retired or relinquished would have been a Flt Lt but was permitted to use the Rank Sqn Ldr on his calling cards etc

    Occasionally I think on retirement some people were actually also given an official higher rank

    I expect someone here will correct me..

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    6,993
    Thanks
    418
    Thanked 456 Times in 409 Posts

    Default Re: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    I see a number of Flt Lt (ret) but my understanding is that rank could not be used

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    6,993
    Thanks
    418
    Thanked 456 Times in 409 Posts

    Default Re: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    PS this was a right that could be taken away - So if you were say sentenced by a Criminal Court post service the right to use the Rank could be taken away

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Bewdley, UK
    Posts
    3,001
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 131 Times in 113 Posts

    Default Re: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    Post #6 on this thread is what is in KR&ACI

    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...-Commissioning

    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015 to 2023 - All rights reserved.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,159
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts

    Default Re: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    That is it! I wonder what is the difference between Acting and Temporary ranks. Just a different word or some deeper meaning behind it?
    Franek
    https://www.facebook.com/Franciszek-Grabowski-241360809684411/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hornsea, East Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,462
    Thanks
    287
    Thanked 252 Times in 239 Posts

    Default Re: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    Hi Franek

    According the Air Force List a temporary rank is made to fill a post on a temporary wartime establishment, so is semi substantive and the holder does not revert to his substantive rank on posting, however, an acting rank is made to fill a vacant post on a unit and if the holder was posted to another unit, they would revert to their substantive (or temporary) rank.

    War Substantive promotions appear to have been made after an officer had held an acting rank for six months so a Flt Lt, acting Wg Cdr would be promoted to Sqn Ldr (WS) after six months, and later may then be promoted to Temp Sqn Ldr, act Wg Cdr.

    When I resigned my commission it was as a Fg Off retaining Flt Lt, which was the highest acting rank I held in service.

    Malcolm

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,159
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts

    Default Re: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    Malcolm
    Many thanks, though it is still not quite clear to me. I understand that acting rank could have been paid or unpaid, and it could have been up to two ranks over substantive. The only thing I am not sure, is, when the one had to remove stripes, and return to the old rank.
    I am not sure with Tempy. I understand the difference, at least I think so. I have seen the rank for the first time in the records of the RPAF in the late 1950s - Tempy ACdre. I have not seen it in any wartime records, though of course it does mean nothing - such nuances often do not appear in ORBs.
    That said, I am not sure how to understand your sample. Flt Lt, acting Wg Cdr would be promoted to Sqn Ldr (WS) after six months, and later may then be promoted to Temp Sqn Ldr, act Wg Cdr. Do you mean that WS Sqn Ldr may become Tempy Sqn Ldr post-war?
    In regard of post-war recruitment. I am aware of Polish officers joining RAF post-war in Wt Off rank. Not sure how it happened formally.
    Franek
    https://www.facebook.com/Franciszek-Grabowski-241360809684411/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    672
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 77 Times in 76 Posts

    Default Re: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    From 'Hansard' 1944.

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-h...cers-promotion

    Sir R. Glyn asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he can state the systems of promotion in the R.A.F. for air crews and officers engaged on ground duties, respectively; whether the distinction between acting rank and temporary rank is governed by any particular regulation; to what extent officers are debarred from any promotion if not promoted from acting temporary rank; and what is the position of Volunteer Reserve officers, many of whom are fairly senior and who had seen service either in the Army or Navy before joining up for employment during this war.
    Sir A. Sinclair replied - The scheme of war-time promotion for officers in the R.A.F. can be briefly described as follows:

    Time-Promotion.

    Officers of the General Duties Branch (aircrews) are commissioned in the rank of pilot officer. After six months' service in that rank they are granted time-promotion to flying officer and after a further 18 months time-promotion to flight lieutenant, subject in each case to satisfactory service. For other officers there is time-promotion to the rank of flying officer after six months' satisfactory service in the rank of pilot officer, except in the Medical and Dental Branches where officers are entered as flying officers and are granted time-promotion to flight lieutenant after one year's satisfactory service.

    Temporary Promotion.

    Promotions to ranks outside the scope of time-promotions are made within the war establishment on the recommendations of Central Promotion Boards held at the Air Ministry.

    Acting Promotion.

    Acting rank is granted to officers employed in posts graded in a rank above their existing rank pending the availability of an officer of the appropriate substantive or temporary rank, and is tenable only so long as officer is filling such a post. Acting ranks up to wing commander may be granted by commands; the acting rank of group captain and above is granted by the Air Ministry.

    Officers who obtain an acting rank two or more steps above their basic rank and hold it for certain periods are given war substantive rank one rank below the acting rank and they cannot drop below this in war if they lose their acting rank.

    Promotion Boards for temporary rank are held half-yearly and the claims of officers, whether holding acting rank or not, who have not been selected by one Board are considered by subsequent Boards.

    As for the last part of the Question, the claims to promotion to temporary rank of R.A.F.V.R. officers with previous service are fully considered along with those of other officers. Promotions are of course limited to vacancies.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to bvs For This Useful Post:

    paulmcmillan (12th October 2022)

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hornsea, East Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,462
    Thanks
    287
    Thanked 252 Times in 239 Posts

    Default Re: ". . . retaining the rank of . . ." - what is its significance ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski View Post
    Malcolm
    Many thanks, though it is still not quite clear to me. I understand that acting rank could have been paid or unpaid, and it could have been up to two ranks over substantive. The only thing I am not sure, is, when the one had to remove stripes, and return to the old rank.
    I am not sure with Tempy. I understand the difference, at least I think so. I have seen the rank for the first time in the records of the RPAF in the late 1950s - Tempy ACdre. I have not seen it in any wartime records, though of course it does mean nothing - such nuances often do not appear in ORBs.
    That said, I am not sure how to understand your sample. Flt Lt, acting Wg Cdr would be promoted to Sqn Ldr (WS) after six months, and later may then be promoted to Temp Sqn Ldr, act Wg Cdr. Do you mean that WS Sqn Ldr may become Tempy Sqn Ldr post-war?
    In regard of post-war recruitment. I am aware of Polish officers joining RAF post-war in Wt Off rank. Not sure how it happened formally.
    Franek
    I think Post 14 answers your question. If an officer gave up his acting rank he would remove the rank braid of the acting rank.

    Malcolm

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •