Whitley "BD385" lost 04 May 44 with crew 19 OTU

**paulmcmillan** · 10th November 2022, 15:05

re: Whitley "BD385" lost 04 May 44 with crew 19 OTU

http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...php?uniq=BD385

Sergeant Robert John (Bob) CLAYTON (1582770) U/T Air Gun Whitley V BD385 IBCCRAF 1944-05-04 19 OTU United Kingdom Kinloss Abbey Burial GroundRef : Coll. Grave 62-66. Row C.
Sergeant Joseph Thomas COOK (1334466) Wireless Op Whitley V BD385 IBCCRAF 1944-05-04 19 OTU United Kingdom Kinloss Abbey Burial GroundRef : Coll. grave 62-66. Row C.
Flying Officer Anthony DUNCAN-SMITH (152406) U/T Pilot Whitley V BD385 IBCCRAF 1944-05-04 19 OTU United Kingdom Englefield Green CemeteryRef : Plot 13. Grave 1431.
Flying Officer Arthur Herbert EASTMENT (161266) Pilot Instr Whitley V BD385 IBCCRAF 1944-05-04 19 OTU United Kingdom Kinloss Abbey Burial GroundRef : Coll. grave 62-66. Row C.
Pilot Officer Cyril Benjamin PHILLIPS (154247) Air Bomber Whitley V BD385 IBCCRAF 1944-05-04 19 OTU United Kingdom Kinloss Abbey Burial GroundRef : Coll. grave 62-66. Row C.
Flying Officer Terence Desmond REILLY (55056) U/T Pilot Whitley V BD385 IBCC 944-05-04 19 OTU United Kingdom Kinloss Abbey Burial Ground

This came up on Air Britain last 3 days

The issue is that ED385 was also Lost with 19 OTU on 4 May 1944

Also lost that day with 19 OTU were Whitley Z9361 and LA838

"Power of the Hunter" - Kinloss history by the late Jim Hughes (1994)

"In the early hours Whitley "BD385" crashed on the railway line near Kinloss LNER station. In the confusion which followed there was a collision between two other Whitleys on take off. Z9361 managed to land but LA838 crashed on the sands of Findhorn Bay"

The collision of Z9361 and LA838 resulted in crew above being killed in LA838 NOT "BD385" - The F.1180 accident card for LA838 [this is from the paper card, which appears not to have made it to microfilm] says this a/c collided with Z9361 on 4 May 1944; six killed in LA838, position Culbin Sands. Location is confirmed by the entries for F/O Eastment et al in the Statutory Register of Deaths for the Parish of Dyke, Moray.

Z9361, 'F' of 'A' Flight, according to the 19 OTU ORB, was struck on the rear turret by LA838's starboard wing and was Cat AC. As noted by others, it was not SOC until 6 May 1945.

The F.1180 accident card for EB385 [again the original paper card record] has this a/c force-landing 200 yards W of Kinloss Railway Station on 4 May 1944, six unhurt.

OJ so what about BD385 and ED385 - The aircraft that crashed on the railway line ?

A co-respondent on ABIX has come up with answer

Well careful review of movement cards shows of all aircraft show that BD385 was ex BOAC

In box 8 it is whisked out of 38 MU and allocated to 19 OTU on an unspecified date with no Authority quoted. (Neither is there any record of its Tiger engines being replaced by Merlins to make it a Mk V.)

In box 9, the same handwriting has it Cat E in a flying accident on 4.5.44.

In box 10 the aircraft languishes in limbo for an inordinate five months before being SoC 15.10.44.

"
For my money, Mark I Whitley BD385 (the former G-AGDX) was safely in storage at 38 MU, Llandow, during the time Mk Vs were crashing at Kinloss. It seems that Mark V EB385’s particulars have been erroneously duplicated in boxes 8 and 9 on BD385’s record card."

I believe BD385 never reverted to military service between leaving BOAC in July 1943 and scrapping in October 1944. It was EB385 which came down 200 yd W of Kinloss Station, Moray."

So For Crew above "BD385" should be LA838

LA838 was hit by Z9361

The aircraft at Kinloss railway station was ED385 NOT BD385 - BD385 had its details mixed up with ED385 and was not involved at all in incidents on 4 May 1944

**Ross_McNeill** · 10th November 2022, 17:44

ED385 at station - no injuries - BD crossed out on F1180

Sgt J A Reilly RCAF R/188769 3rd pilot on Z9361 card also has LA838 entry so double card covering both but LA838 also has card raised and filed F/O T D Reilly 55056 2nd Pilot on this aircraft.

Ross