Daring young RAF men in flying machines

[stuartblack]

I am trying to find information on: a) my uncle, Hugh Robertson BLACK. 28033. ->LG and b) my father Donal James Black (RAF service number unknown)


I found some information on the RAF Commands website:
http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...php?uniq=K4669 Air Ministry, 26th April, 1929. ROYAL AIR FORCE. GENERAL DUTIES BRANCH. The undermentioned are granted short service commissions as Pilot Officers on probation with effect from and with seniority of 13th Apr. 1929: Hugh Robertson BLACK. 28033.

I suppose “28033" is his RAF service number but what is “LG”?

Some information appeared in a newspaper article about his death in 1950 after flying home from Saudia Arabia that shows what a character he was:

“Baron" Black was stationed in Aden in the 1930s , and flew a doctor to a palace in Yemen, saving the life of the king's eldest son.For his flying acrobatics he was awarded the title of “Baron”. Then he was made a "Saint", as his plane crashed on a desert runway while taking off. He was put on the "calendar of saints"

During the war he was C.O of two Flying Training Schools in Canada and later he led his own squadron as a bomber pilot over Germany. He was awarded the Air Force Cross.

Any information about Hugh or Donal Black would be greatly appreciated.


Happy 2023, Stuart Black

[paulmcmillan]

LG = London Gazette

Search on full name and service numbers for rank procession

Hugh Robertson BLACK was service number 28033

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...5102/page/1452


The undermentioned Flying Officers are transferred to the Reserve. 13th Apr. 1934 Class A. Hugh Robertson BLACK.


Donal James BLACK was 1809430


https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...upplement/3781



https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...upplement/4002


Jan 1931 Air Force List

111 (FIGHTER) SQUADRON
HQ and 3 Flights, Siskin
Fighting Area
HornChurch, Essex
F/O Hugh R Black - 1 April 1930 -> on Sqn Since


Jan 1934 Air Force List

8 (BOMBER) SQUADRON
HQ and 3 Flights, IIIF (G.P.) -> Fairey IIF
Aden Command
Khormaksar
F/O Hugh R Black - 12 Feb 1932 -> on Sqn Since

So you know know what dates he was in Aden (1932 to 1934)

[stuartblack]

Apparently, Paul Macmillian replied to this thread but it isn't showing up here. So I cut and pasted his reply below, in an attempt to solicit some more advice ** in an attempt to find more information (see ** below) on my father (Donal James Black 1809430) and his flying brothers (Hugh Robertson Black, 28033), Ian Stuart Black (? service number unknown) and Stuart Robertson Black (? service number unknown).

LG = London Gazette

Search on full name and service numbers for rank procession

** I don't know what information the LG has and I don't know how to find it to search it (other than in wikipedia, where I can search individual months, but how does one search for other names in the entire document - or do you have to search on month at a time?).

Hugh Robertson BLACK was service number 28033

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...5102/page/1452


The undermentioned Flying Officers are transferred to the Reserve. 13th Apr. 1934 Class A. Hugh Robertson BLACK.


Donal James BLACK was 1809430

** the 25 June 1948 LG says he was Appointment to Commission Royal as a As flying officer in air Force Volunteer Reserve on 13 May 1948

** Then the 21 July 1953 LG supplement said he Relinquished his Commission as a Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserveon 13 May 1953

** how do I find out a) when he was called up for duties, b) where he was called up, c) where he trained, d) what type of aircraft he trained on, etc?

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...upplement/3781



https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...upplement/4002


Jan 1931 Air Force List

111 (FIGHTER) SQUADRON
HQ and 3 Flights, Siskin
Fighting Area
HornChurch, Essex
F/O Hugh R Black - 1 April 1930 -> on Sqn Since

** Does this mean that he had been with the 111 (FIGHTER) SQUADRON since 1 April 1930, and flew 3 Flights on Siskins out of HornChurch, Essex?

Jan 1934 Air Force List

8 (BOMBER) SQUADRON
HQ and 3 Flights, IIIF (G.P.) -> Fairey IIF
Aden Command
Khormaksar
F/O Hugh R Black - 12 Feb 1932 -> on Sqn Since

** Does this mean that he had been with the 8 (BOMBER) SQUADRON since 1 Feb 1932, and flew 3 Flights on Fairey III F, Fleet spotters out of Khormaksar, Aden?

So you know know what dates he was in Aden (1932 to 1934)

** apparently by 13 April 1934 he had acquired a “class A” and was transferred to Reserve Instructor, Perth

Last edited by paulmcmillan; 30th December 2022 at 09:08.

[Chas]

LG is London Gazette
You should be able to find Donal James Black's service number in the AIR 78 files http://www.rafcommands.com/air78/ . There are a lot of Blacks listed here, so it may take a while.

[wwrsimon]

Hello Stuart

Welcome to the Forum.

If you Google "Donal James Black" gazette it brings up a page from the London Gazette dated June 28th 1948 with has the Service Number 1809430.

I see there's an article in the Manchetser Evening News from August 9th 1943 with the headline 'The Four Flying Blacks' about Major Stuart Black, from Urmston and a member of the Home Guard, and his four sons Wing Commander Hugh Robertson Black based in Canada, Pilot Officer Ian Black based in Cairo, Flight Lieut. Stuart Black in India and L.A.C. Donal Black, also in Canada.

The article reports that Major Black was a captain in the Machine Gun Corps in WW1, before which he was an actor, appearing in Hollywood silent movies. The article also relates the story of 'the Baron' Hugh Black.

Regards

Simon

[stuartblack]

Hello Stuart

Welcome to the Forum.

* If you Google "Donal James Black" gazette it brings up a page from the London Gazette dated June 28th 1948 with has the Service Number 1809430.


** I see there's an article in the Manchetser Evening News from August 9th 1943 with the headline 'The Four Flying Blacks' about Major Stuart Black, from Urmston and a member of the Home Guard, and his four sons Wing Commander Hugh Robertson Black based in Canada, Pilot Officer Ian Black based in Cairo, Flight Lieut. Stuart Black in India and L.A.C. Donal Black, also in Canada.

The article reports that Major Black was a captain in the Machine Gun Corps in WW1, before which he was an actor, appearing in Hollywood silent movies. The article also relates the story of 'the Baron' Hugh Black.

Regards

Simon

Thanks Simon, I am learning how to "navigate" this website. Paul McMillan sent me a similar link to the LG for his "appointment", along with another one "relinquishing his commission" on 21 July 1953. But it didn't appear here, so he had to email it to me.

** Thanks for this googling tip (add 'gazette' to the name). Any idea how to find the date when he "enlisted"?

** this is amazing! I tried googling the newspaper article but failed. Can you send me a copy of the article or a link? I think the "Baron" and subsequent "Saint" stories elevated Hugh to legendary status at family gatherings.

[stuartblack]

Simon, it's OK I found the article in the Manchester Evening News from August 9th 1943 about 'The Four Flying Blacks, for those that are interested: https://www.britishnewspaperarchive....30809/059/0004

[stuartblack]

Thanks Chas, but I must be searching incorrectly because I only found one Black, "Black, John – Blackford, William Walter"

[paulmcmillan]

Here is article

The only mystery is Donal Black - I can't find him - not living at home in 1939 - (only Ian Stuart Black is) maybe away at School - Birth circa 1924 - can't find him on FreeBMD either

UPDATE FOUND HIM

Donal James Black
1924–1994
BIRTH 09JUNE1924 • Edinburgh, Scotland
DEATH 03DEC1994 • Woodstock, Cherokee, Georgia, USA

Donald James Black 1809430 1941


Not on FreeBMD as Born Scotland

Page 4: Manchester Evening News
Mon Aug 9 1943

5 Photos

Here are the Blacks (left to right): Dad, Hugh, Ian, Stuart, Donal


THE FOUR
FLYING
BLACKS
By a Special Correspondent
WHENEVER a letter comes to
mother and dad from
their sons, the Four Flying
Blacks, to their home in Stretford Road,
Urmston. it has an
overseas postmark.
Wing Commander Hugh
Robertson Black, their eldest
son for instance. writes from
Saskatchewan, Canada, where
he is the 32-year-old C.O. Of a
Flying Training School.
Those from 29-year-old Pilot
Officer Ian Black (Ian Stuart Black -- 24th July 1943.1141730 Ian Stuart BLACK (146471)) come from
Cairo, Flight Lieut. Stuart
Black's (Stuart Robertson Black #40879) are mailed in India and
L.A.C. Donal Black (Donal James Black #1809430 later commissioned with same service number
25 June 1948), who is 19,
writes from Canada, where he
is training.
There is also fifth Black,
a Fighting Black this time. the
boy's father, Major Stuart
Black of the Home Guard who
was a captain in the Machine
Gun Corps in the last war.
Major Black, an actor before
the last war, appeared in Hollywood silent films.
Now however, after a quarter of a century as sales
manager of a Manchester yeast
firm. he is back at his old love,
acting and has a small part in
a new film, " The Shipbuilders,"
which stars Clive Brook, an old
comrade from the last war.
Wing Commander Hugh is
known as " the Baron " to all
his friends because before the
war the King of Yemen.
Arabia, conferred this title
upon him after he had flown
a doctor to the Palace to save
the life of his eldest son.

Pilot Officer Ian. a Manchester University graduate.
was an actor with Donald
Wolfit's company, has written
several plays, appeared at thce
Gaiety Theatre and the Altrincham Garrick with Repertory
companies and is married to
ex-repertory actress Anne
Brooke.

Twenty-four-year-old Flight
Lieut. Stuart, stationed in
Singapore when war broke out.
escaped after the fall of the
island, went to Java and
managed to get away from there
to Ceylon.
He is now in India.

[stuartblack]

Thanks Paul. It took some googling but I eventually found a copy of the "Four Flying Blacks" article. My cousin, Ian Stuart Black's daughter, was filled with pride after reading it.

I am piecing together Donal's training journey from his log book, which seems to start in October 1942 (I see you have a date starting in "1941" - not sure where you found that)
Here are the brief notes I have made so far:
1) Cambridge UAS: October 1942 to March 1943;
2) ACRC London: April 1943;
3) [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]N[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]o. 9 ITW Stratford on Avon: April to May 1943;
4) [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Derby[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]: [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]G[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]rading School: No. 16 E.F.T.S. Derby[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] RAF Burnaston[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] – [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]May 25 to June 2;
5) [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Canada[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Liberation Serif, Times New Roman, serif][SIZE=3] (according to the [/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3]Manchester[/SIZE][FONT=Liberation Serif, Times New Roman, serif][SIZE=3] Evening News article -- June to Aug 16?), [/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]USA[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]USNAS Grosse Ile Michigan [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]([/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]August 17 [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]to Oct 28), [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Pensacola Florida [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]([/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Nov 25 [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]to Apr 18[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]), [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Canada – [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Moncton [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]([/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]May 13-27[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]); [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Liberation Serif, Times New Roman, serif]Gap? June – July?[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, Times New Roman, serif]6) Back to the UK in various EFTS from Aug 20 1944 until Aug 2 1945[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, Times New Roman, serif]7) Aug 15 transferred to Baroda (India) until October 31[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, Times New Roman, serif]8) Transferred to Mingaladon, Rangoon, Burma (267 Squadron, passenger and freight transport): flying missions Oct 3 to 27[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, Times New Roman, serif]9) Transferred to [/FONT]Calling[FONT=Liberation Serif, Times New Roman, serif] Singapore (48 Squadron, transport) from 10 July 1946 t Jan 1947
[/FONT]10) Edinburgh University Air Squadron (Aug 1948 to June 1949) RAF Perth

Following this, he got married to my mother (Elizabeth Anne Chishom) and immigrated to Canada (1953).

I am trying to track down various units he was with:
1) Information on where he was in Canada between [/FONT][/COLOR]June and Aug 16
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]2) [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]1334 TSCU Baroda*[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] India (now [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Gujrat[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]), Oct 3 to 27 (CU seems to be Conversion Unit, and TS might be "[/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000]training" or "transport service"?[/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Any tips appreciated. Stuart[/FONT][/COLOR]