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Thread: 06/08/44 - Bomber Command Ops

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    Default 06/08/44 - Bomber Command Ops

    Ive been inspired to poke around again in the subject of Halifax LW546 and its loss on 6/8/44 coming back from Hazebrouck.

    Im wondering if anyone can tell me what other sqn then 51 took part in this raid?

    Ive seen various degree of accounts of light fire at the coast of france etc but it looks like it could of been abit more accurate for this hali's fate.

    Im also wondering if i need to start looking into german and french records that might mention it being shot down. I havent been able to find a ref from the Luftwaffe for that day and time. any ideas?

    Nothing seems to have been heard on the radio so it must of been sudden perhaps?

    thanks inadvance for any help or ideas

    Neil

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    hello,

    From "The Bomber Command War Diaries" by Middlebrook & Everitt : 62 aircraft - 51 Halifaxes, 6 Lancasters, 5 Mosquitoes - of 4 and 8 Groups, bombed the railway center. The attack opened well but the target became obscurd by smoke. One Halifax lost.

    In "From Hull, Hell and Halifax", the history of No. 4 Group, there's a picture on page 156 taken during the raid, showing Flight Lieutenant Horton's No. 578 Squadron Halifax. So that gives you another Squadron which took part in the raid.

    Hope this helps

    Joss

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    Eddie Fell Guest

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    Hi Neil

    You can rule out 158, 640, 346, 347 and 102 Sqns as they were at Foret de Nieppe.

    That leaves 10,76,77,78 Sqn with no more than 2 of those possibly involved

    Cheers

    Eddie

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    Neil,
    As Joss points out, BC War Diaries quote only one Halifax lost on this date, as does Chorley's BC Losses. Les Butler/Tony Wood site has four claims for Hali's on this date, all within 5 mins, possibly LW546 having a multiple claim made against it?

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    hello,

    Actually, "Foret de Nieppe" is not very far from Hazebrouck, both targets are in northern France, say 15 km or so from each other. But there's no loss quoted for the raid against the former target in "Bomber Command Losses 1944".

    But there are 4 Lancasters lost during the raid "Bois de Cassan", which was flying bomb storage site, in the morning. The Hazebrouck raid happened 10 hours later.

    According to BCL volume 5 :
    Lancaster I W4824 crashed near Pontoise, no cause given.
    Lancaster III ND930, shot down by fighters near Pontoise
    Lancaster III PB140, badly shot up by a Fw-190, some of the crew bailed out, W/O D.J. LESTER R.A.A.F. is commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial, he probably landed in the Channel and drowned, the plane crash-landed at 2:15PM at Ford airfield, Sussex.
    Lancaster III ND840 hit by flak and crashed at Eaubonne.

    It would depend on the time you have for the German fighters' claims.

    Joss

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    LW546 took of at 19:10

    the last 51 sqn landed back at 23:05

    what is the address for the les butler site?

    It looks like the fighters had been busy in the morning with the Lancs but dont seem to of been around for the Hazebrouck mission, the data ive seen so far doesnt show any evidence for a fighter claim at that time in the evening. I was only aware of one downed aircraft from the hazebrouck mission and for that time of the day.

    I think thats why im wondering if its due to flak defences etc. flak was encountered from other crews but noone has anything to say about LW546 from the 51 sqn orb from that night.

    I do have a document that i think gives four map ref for the route taken that mission, but i have no knowledge on secondary targets etc.

    not facts but ive heard that red fairy light was seen from another 51 sqn aircraft but this was not reported in the orb.

    if they had time for a red fairy light then they would of had time for a redio message?

    would there be a document showing the plan and route and order of the sqn aircraft bombing?

    would it of been a free for all getting back home?

    cheers for your thoughts

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    109 Squadron did Oboe marking at 5 targets on that date which indicate the approximate times they were carried out.
    2 a/c to L'Isle Adam up at 10:45 - down at 13:15
    3 a/c to Foret de Nieppe -up at 12:00 - down at 13:55
    3 a/c to Hazelbrouck - up at 19:50 - down at 21:40
    4 a/c to Foret de Nieppe -up at 21:10 - down at 00:15
    5 a/c to Castrop-Rauxel - up at 21:35 - down at 01:15

    Regards
    Dave Wallace

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    The Halifax claims are all just after noon, German time.

    There's two claims for Lancasters at 4 in the morning on the night of 6/7 August, and nothing between then and 1 p.m., so I think there's no easily-found fighter claim for this one.

    The Luftwaffe lists are here:

    http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm

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    Neil

    78 Squadron were not on the operation to Hazebrock, they operated against the Foret de Nieppe on the 5th and Caen as part of Operation Totaliser on the night of the 7th/8th but were stood down from operations on the 6th.

    Regards

    Daz

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    Cheers Daz

    I was double checking Halifax numbers last night and 51 sqn sent 27 for that mission.
    I need to find out how many 578 sqn sent. my idea is to look through the other Sqn orbs to find any other mention of LW546.

    Cheers dave with Mossy records, to be honest i havent heard about the oboe marking until now..........interesting.

    so weve got
    51 sqn with 27 aircraft
    109 sqn with 3 aircraft
    578 sqn with ? aircraft

    Im getting a good idea about the whole mission now!

    cheers for the help!

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