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Thread: RAF WWII Medal entitlement

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    Default RAF WWII Medal entitlement

    Could someone please tell me what medals a Sgt Bomb Aimer would be entitled to who lost his life on active duty while under conversion at a H.C.U. on 4th January 1945. He had only completed 4 weeks of the course. Thank you.

    Norman

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    Norman,

    Apologies, but it depends hugely on what the chap did before he was killed e.g. transferee from the army? A retread from a gound branch. Home guard? ARP? etc etc

    Jonny

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    Norman,

    At the very least he should have 1939-45 War Medal as he only had to complete 28 days service to be entitled. To be aircrew he had to have at least a few months service.

    Mark

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    I apologise that my earlier submission was a little vague. Here are the missing bits:

    1492739 Sergeant Thomas Wilson. RAF Bomb Aimer
    Formerly trainee analytical chemist .

    Enlisted late 1941. Basic training England
    Bomb Aimer training Eastern Canada
    Medium bomber conversion 19 OTU Kinloss, Scotland
    Heavy bomber conversion 1669 HCU Langar, Nottingham, England

    4 Jan 1945 - only 4 weeks into the course - killed on active service during a night navigation exercise in Halifax II W7928. Aircraft entered cu-nim cloud. Pilot ordered rest of crew to bale out over Western Approaches following a stall at 20,000ft through icing, crew lost at sea, pilot recovered aircraft at 2,000ft and made a successful landing somewhere in Cornwall.

    Wilson had no other or previous military service.

    Thank you for your help
    Norman
    Last edited by namrondooh; 24th April 2009 at 14:14. Reason: additional info

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    The eligibility for campaign medals was not dependent upon length of service if the potential recipient was killed or wounded out.

    So he (or rather his family) could have got the 1939-1945 Star, Air Crew Europe Star, and War Medal. Each one of these could be awarded even if the person was killed in service, whether operational or training, and regardless of length of service.

    A

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    Would he have been entitled to the Air Crew Europe Star? I thought he would have been too late for that as the cut off date 4th June 1944 (I think). I know it is awarded if the person in question was killed, but I thought he would have had to have been killed prior to June 4th 1944, and on operations.

    Johnnie

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    Hi Johnnie

    There were three "medals" and, for want of a better word, parts for aircrews:

    1) Air Crew Europe Star
    2) France and Germany Star
    3) France and Germany Clasp

    From reading the MoD criteria, and other sites, my understanding is that the Air Crew Europe Star was awarded to all aircrew who met the criteria set out in the above posts, i.e. minimum days of service or death, between 1939 and 1945.

    The France and Germany Star was awarded to aircrew who flew operationally after the 6th June 1944. The importanty thing is that it had to be operational and after that date. Those who did not fly operationally against the enemy and/or were killed in training accidents etc (and hadn't flown operatioanally at anytime) AFTER the 6th June 1944 still got the Air Crew Europe Star

    the addition of the clasp just gets complicated as there are so many combinations, but in this instant it isn't important.

    A

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    Amrit

    I would have to disagree with your comment about the Air Crew Europe Star, Quote "Those who did not fly operationally against the enemy and/or were killed in training accidents etc (and hadn't flown operatioanally at anytime) AFTER the 6th June 1944 still got the Air Crew Europe Star" UnQuote
    The qualification period for the ACE star finished on 05 Jun 1944, regardless of what type of flying duties they undertook. Air crew flying operationally after that date were awarded the France and Germany Star providing they had already qualified for the 1939-45 Star. The qualification for 1939-45 Star was two months of operational flying, a further 2 months of operational flying was required to meet the criteria required for the ACE Star up to 05 Jun 1944. Time as a POW did not count. I have a number of groups to aircrew who failed to qualify for the ACE Star because their tours were after 05 Jun '44 and some who were shot down in their first month of Operational flying and taken POW.

    In my opinion this chap would be entitled to the 1939-45 Star, Defence Medal and War Medal

    Regards

    Daz

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    Hi Daz

    it is rather confusing because the criteria for the F& G S is OPERATIONAL flying, and the implications seem to be that non-operational would be the ACE.

    But I bow to your greater experience.

    A

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    Thank you but alas I am still a little confused. If Sgt Wilson was already a trained (but not yet converted to type) Bomber Command Bomb Aimer / Air Bomber, would it then be correct to assume that conversion flying was operational flying? The way I'm looking at it is that while on conversion flying and therefore, presumably flying across the UK country and waters in all directions, they would still be at risk to enemy air attack? Which is operational? Also, I presume all or some guns were loaded? I am now left wondering what defines " Operational flying " when it comes to medal entitlement for those airmen on Bomber Command "Conversion flying" ? Thank you

    Norman
    Last edited by namrondooh; 27th April 2009 at 12:15. Reason: adding the words "and waters" - 4 lines down

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