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Thread: S/Lr Wincott

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    Default S/Lr Wincott

    hello , I have just joined after attempting to find out some Beaufighter info. on the web.
    on 12 May 1942 S/Ldr Wincott with four others wiped out a load of Ju 52's and a Me110 over Crete. apparently one Beaufighter was lost. does anyone know the details of this aircraft ? any info. will be appreciated, thanks, Chris

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    If you google Book search, Wincott beaufighter etc, one finds the book

    Fighters Over the Desert: The Air Battles in the Western Desert. June 1940 to December 1942
    By Christopher F. Shores, Hans Ring
    Published by Spearman, 1969

    Which contains details of the combat, though there may be corrections over the years no doubt.

    The crew were perhaps:

    F/Sgt Reginald Agustus CRIPPS 748137

    Sgt Thomas BATEMAN 995852 but his date of death on the CWGC is given as 12 MARCH 1942 but I think this might be a scanning error maybe?

    Both are listed on the Alamein Memorial, Bateman Column 250, Cripps Column 249, with 252 Squadron.
    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20965#post20965
    Am I wrong about Batemans date above?

    I found Cripps using Geoff Sullivan search engine and perhaps the other airman if its not Bateman was Commonwealth or POW or rescued etc etc.
    http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search39-47.php

    regards

    Dennis
    Last edited by dennis_burke; 30th December 2008 at 19:36.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    I confirm the crew and the loss details as:

    12/05/42
    No.252 Sqn
    Beaufighter Ic
    T5028
    BT-H

    Sgt R A Cripps
    F/Sgt T Bateman

    Op: Interception, Gambut, Time Up 08:05 hrs

    Took off in company with other squadron aircraft and ten Kittyhawks. Shot down by return fire while attacking Ju52s off Derna. The Beaufighter was seen to be hit and climb to 100 feet before crashing into the sea just behind the enemy aircraft. Only two small pieces of wreckage were sighted on the sea in the crash vicinity. Both Sgt Cripps and F/Sgt Bateman are commemorated on the Alamein Memorial.

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

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    Thanks Ross,

    I'll pop the CWGC an email for them to check into it when they get a chance.

    Happy New Year and well done on another good years work.
    Dennis
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Default S/Lr Wincott

    hello again, many thanks to the contributors for their answers to my query. have made a note of the book quoted. as a matter of interest Ross, I am a bit naive on this one , but where do you derive the info. ? hopefully it is not obtained from " the Noddy's Guide to Beaufighter Losses " readily available from W H Smith ! I would be really sick. thank you again, Chris. ( was the camouflage of the aircraft two shades of brown for desert or two shades of grey for sea ? )

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    Hi Chris,

    Not quite the Noddy guide..

    The Squadron ORB at Kew gives the basis of the combat and the loss. The Group ORB gives a bit more of the general scene and the aircraft individual code.

    CWGC gave the name of the crew albeit with the error in the transcription date for the navigator. Trial and error eliminated his loss being connected with another aircraft in March.

    All in preparation for a possible Vol 4 (Worldwide (ex UK & Iceland) and training Coastal Loss Noddy Guide book.

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
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    Default S/Lr Wincott

    hello Ross, thanks for that. are these ORB available online ? regards, Chris

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    The Operational Record Books are in microfilm or paper format and are open for personal inspection at The National Archives, Kew, London.

    Alternatively you can order copies on microfilm. paper or digitised onto CD but be aware that each ORB can run to several hundred pages per war year.

    All RAF formations from Commands down to flights were required to provide a daily/monthly historical record during the war. How detailed the ORB is varies from unit to unit and from scribe to scribe.

    However they are a primary record laid down either within 24 hours of the events or as a monthly summary.

    Gems are present within the pages as well as errors but for the detail of what happened on a particular operation they are second to none.

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

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    I contacted the CWGC when this tread was rasied and they confirmed today that there was a scanning error so they have corrected date of death to read 12 May 1942.

    Name: BATEMAN, THOMAS
    Initials: T
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Sergeant
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: 252 Sqdn.
    Date of Death: 12/05/1942
    Service No: 995852
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Column 250.
    Memorial: ALAMEIN MEMORIAL

    Their message reads:
    "When our records were scanned to form our database some errors did unfortunately occur because of the age and variable quality of the material and print. Naturally, we are keen to ensure that all such errors are corrected, however small, and I am grateful to you for drawing this to our attention. I have amended Sergeant T Bateman's record which now reads"

    Well done all!
    Last edited by dennis_burke; 24th February 2009 at 15:50. Reason: added CWGC text
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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