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Thread: Data Stirling 190 squadron

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    Default Data Stirling 190 squadron

    Hello everyone,

    Who can help me with the data on the Stirling that lost it's Horsa glider above the island of Goeree-Overflakkee on September 18th 1944? It was flown by Flt.Sgt Herger and was from 190 squadron. The Horsa glider landed safely near the village of Oude-Tonge. Carrying a jeep plus 6-pounder anti-tank gun and 3 troops of Z-Troop of 1st.Airlanding Anti-Tank Battery Royal Artillery. The Horsa was flown by S/Sgt. Newton en Sgt. Douglas Smithson (No.10 Flight - G squadron) and had chalknumber 1007.

    We need this data to re-tell their story on our website and make a watercolour painting for a exhibition. (We are foundation WO2GO; heritage WW2 on our island), see www.wo2go.nl)

    Kees

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    From the book "Tugs and Gliders to Arnhem" (Arie-Jan van Hees), page 140:
    Stirling LJ943 - time up 1210 - time down 1555 - tow rope broke due to evasive action tug.
    An excellent book (Address author/publisher: A.J. van Hees - Courtpendu 7 - 6245 PE Eijsden).
    Regards,
    Henk.

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    Hello,

    Yes Arie-Jan van Hees did a great job with "Tugs and Gliders to Arnhem".

    To complete Henk's infos and for your exhibition:
    LJ943 and the same crew failed to return on 21 September 1944 during a same re-supply mission to Arhnem.
    LJ943 crashed in a field near Zetten, close to the location of LJ982 of 190 Squadron lost the same day.
    21 September was a really sad day for 190 Squadron because 10 aircraft took-off to Arnhem but only 3 came back.
    2 airmen survived the crash of LJ943:
    Sgt L G Hillyard (Flight Engineer)
    W/O J C Thomas, RCAF (Air Gunner)
    From the crew were lost:
    P/O R B Herger, RCAF (Pilot)
    F/O O H Antoft, RCAF (Navigator)
    W/o L I Whitlock, RCAF (Wireless Operator)
    F/O J K MacDonnell, RCAF (Air Bomber)
    F/O H A Tornington (Air Gunner)
    From 253 (Airborne) Composite Company, RASC air despatchers were also lost:
    Driver E Noble
    Driver C Parker

    Please, will it be possible to see the painting?

    Best regards.

    Bruno
    Bruno LECAPLAIN
    Raf WWII 38 Group Squadrons Reunited <www.raf38group.org>
    Stirling Aircraft Society <stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org>

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    Hello Bruna and Henk

    Thank's a lot! This sure helps. I had some data from Arie-Jan's book but in some strange way not the aircraft s/n. I am very sorry to hear that this aircraft crashed a few days later. To finish the painting, I need the squadron code (L5 or G5) and the aircraft identification letter. Does anyone of you know this?

    And Bruno: sure I will show the picture when it's finished.

    Kees

    (We recently acquired have one of the original petrolcans of the glider)

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    Kees,

    I'm sorry but this time I can't help you.
    190 Squadron code letters are very hard to find in documents and unfortunately 190 Squadron is the 38 Group Squadron with the less known serials and code letters during Market Garden.
    190 Squadron letters were G5 and L9 not L5.

    Bruno
    Bruno LECAPLAIN
    Raf WWII 38 Group Squadrons Reunited <www.raf38group.org>
    Stirling Aircraft Society <stirlingaircraftsoc.raf38group.org>

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    Hello Bruno,

    So the exact a/c is difficult, I understand. To make it as authentic as possible: what would have been the most probable squadron code on this aircraft, G5 of L9?
    And I assume it still had its invasion stripes?

    Kees

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
    Kees,

    I'm sorry but this time I can't help you.
    190 Squadron code letters are very hard to find in documents and unfortunately 190 Squadron is the 38 Group Squadron with the less known serials and code letters during Market Garden.
    190 Squadron letters were G5 and L9 not L5.

    Bruno
    Have done endless research into the 190 Squadron code quandary.

    Based on that research I believe that 190 did not carry squadron codes at all from April 1944 until after D-Day.

    I have 2 pieces of evidence to support this.

    1. An entry in the Fairford Watchkeeper's log on 22 May 1944 stating:

    18.45. TR. Sqdn letters. Tarrant Rushton spoke to FCO re sqdn letters. TR advised that 190 Sqdn have no letters other than the letter of the aircraft. 620 Sqdn letters are 'QS'.

    2. A picture of 190's 'S' on page 98 of 'Stirlings In Action'. This picture shows the Chapell crew in front of their Stirling around D-Day (fresh stripes). The 'S' is clear to see but there's no G5 or L9.

    At some point between D-Day and Market Garden 190 was assigned G5 and L9. I recall reading that A Flight were assigned G5 and B Flight L9, but I can not confirm this. My grandad was in B Flight (WOP in le Bouvier's crew) and by Market Garden EF260 'R-Roger' was believed to be marked 'L9-R'.

    Hope this helps.

    Luke

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    Mc Keesie

    email send :)

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