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Thread: 614 Squadron loss 22 Aug 44 Samuel KWINTER

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    Default 614 Squadron loss 22 Aug 44 Samuel KWINTER

    Can anyone supply identity and crew of a 614 Squadron Halifax lost over Hungary 22 Aug 1944. From CWGC the only Budapest listing I can find for this date is a FO Samuel KWINTER. This is related to an effort to identify an E TAYLOR, whose POW notes are coming up for auction. Mr Taylor appears to have been in the cage at Sagan.
    Thanks
    Dave

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    The following men listed against 614 Squadron can be found via Geoff Sullivans search engine.
    http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search39-47.php

    F/Sgt HEATH, DJ R/199461 21/08/1944 RCAF Malta Memorial
    F/O KWINTER, SN J/25072 22/08/1944 RCAF Budepest War Cem
    P/O SPARROW, TB J/89691 22/08/1944 RCAF Malta Memorial
    F/Sgt YATES, NS R/224482 22/08/1944 RCAF Malta Memorial
    F/Sgt EVANS, JG 1418593 22/08/1944 RAFVR Malta Memorial

    Ross's list here on this site lists two POW's E Taylors, albeit with middle initials:
    http://www.rafcommands.com/Air%20Force%20PoWs/RAF%20POWs%20Query%20T_1.html

    A small piece of information on Kwinter:
    http://www.cjccc.ca/archives/casualtyinfo.php?info=154

    Someone will get you the correct answer shortly.

    Dennis
    Last edited by dennis_burke; 13th January 2009 at 08:14. Reason: Using fancy words, better spell them correctly!
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    JP228 crashed Widony area, Hungary. Crew: Sparrow - Kwinter - Evans - Heath - Yates - Sparks (the latter PoW, Canadian, no initials, no svcnr).

    Henk.

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    Hello Dave,

    Am I missing something Here?

    All of the press reports that I have read on the 'Tin Can Bomber', state that Taylor was shot down over Hungary on 28 August, 1944.

    Could someone confirm the Unit/Loss date, of Halifax JN895 ?

    Regards,
    Col.

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    JN 895 1 OAPU/301 FTU/463 FTR 28/8/44? NFD (Halifax File)

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    Thanks for that, John.

    I should have explained. I have a copy of the Halifax File, which is now showing its age (1982). I was hoping for more recent data.

    On 1 February,1944, 462 Squadron RAAF departed Libya for Cellone in Italy and once there reformed as No 614 Squadron RAF.

    I believe that Halifax JN895 was on the strength of 614 Sqn at the time of its loss. Perhaps someone could confirm?

    Appreciate your help,
    Col.

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    Good evening gentlemen,
    sorry that I am not available on line as frequently as I would like.
    Thanks for the crew list Dennis and also the link to Geoff's site. I will have a play with the 614 Squadron listings. Interesting info on Kwinter, as you say.
    Henk, thank you for the note of Widony as the crash area of JP228.
    Col, lots of details of the Tin Can Bomber are mashed up by the national press. I have engaged in comms with the auctioneers (of which more in a moment). they have been very helpful and confirm that Mr Taylor has written the loss details as "'Came down in flames over Hungary 22.8.44 by fighter" His sketch in his Log shows a location north of Zomba.
    JN895 seems to show as being with 301 Sdn and lost 27/08 with a Polish crew. Does your reference to JN895 come from the excellent Carpetbagger Aviation Museum listing? If so that 28/08/44 listing is, I think, a typo for JP295.
    This could be another blind alley as this also seems to have been Polish crewed (check out the thread 'Msg for Franek G' on the old board in 2005).
    So I do think 28 August is a blind alley.
    The auctioneers have provided more detail: "PO Ted Wearing , navigator of Jock Bruce's crew arrived here and was posted to another camp. McCormick and the others went down with the machine. This was their 39th trip".
    Elsewhere in Mr Taylor's log is a verse which alludes to pre-take off with a load of target markers and flares.
    I am starting to warm to 614 Squadron (pathfinders) rather than 148 Squadron as SOE ops.
    Back to the drawing board - and my well thumbed copy of Halfax File!!
    Thank you chaps for the input.
    Dave

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    G'Day Dave(and others),

    Thanks for confirming the date of Taylor's loss. That's what I was missing !

    Details of JN895 from The Halifax File (p.65). I can't access the CAM Listing. Get page 1 (pdf),'stopped', then crashes (That's another story).

    To get the overall picture, I used the 205 Group, Bombing, Mining & Supply Ops Listing, which appears as Appendix II, in:-

    Out of the Italian Night:Wellington Bomber Operations 1944-45.
    Lihou,Maurice G.
    Shrewsbury:Airlife,2003(p/b ed.).
    pp.183-192.

    The Target listed for 21/22.8.44, was the Szony Oil Refinery, 81 a/c dispatched, 3 lost.

    I used G'sSE to establish (614 Sqn) Personnel Losses, then sifted other sources.

    The additional details you have provided are most helpful. I don't envy Pel Temple & David Gunby their task, a few grey hairs there !

    Regards,Col.

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    Gents,
    I've JN895 assigned to 1586 Flt; shot down outbound by a night fighter 21.30h and crashed near Lajosmize, 45 km SE of Budapest.
    Regards,
    Henk.

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    Henk,

    Thanks for the clarification on Halifax JN895.

    205 Group, reportedly lost 3 aircraft on 21/22.8.1944. Would you, perchance, have the identity of these aircraft ?

    Col.

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