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Thread: Airscrew ID

  1. #1
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    Default Airscrew ID

    Hi All,

    I am trying to find out what type of propeller this is? It was recovered from Scapa Flow a few years back and is in Lyness Museum on Hoy.





    Also does any know what type of aircrew was used on the Vickers Warwick ASR1 with Pratt & Whitney R-2800 radial engines?

    Any help would be very much appreciated.

    Regards,
    Dave.

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    Not sure if anybody else has had the problem I have, but I seem unable to view the images.

    You could always try posting images on the Key Publishing Forum web site (in the historic aviation section) as I'm sure they would also be able to help you.

    Johnnie

  3. #3
    Eddie Fell Guest

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    Jonnie

    Remove the IMG and surrounding brackets at beginning and end and it should work fine

    Cheers

    Eddie

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    Dave,
    The Warwick powered by P&W Double Wasp (R-2800) engines was provided with Hamilton Standard "Hydromatic" propellers of the 23E50 type (although as these were supplied to the Air Ministry by De Havillands they may well have had a DH number in addition. I believe the actual props were assembled from American-supplied components in Britain by DHs, but if anyone can confirm/refute this proposition, I would be glad to hear of it!) Incidentally the 23E50 was one of the most produced large propellers in history, being fitted to a large proportion of American WW2 military types (bombers, fighters, transports) as well as several British types (Stirling, Mosquito, Albermarle, Canadian-built Hurricanes), and is probably most seen these days on DC-3s, DC-4s, DC-6s, Catalinas, P-51 Mustangs, F4U Corsairs, TBF Avengers, etc.
    David D

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    Default Airscrew ID

    Thanks David,

    Apologies for my late reply in thanking you for your help, had an idea it was a `Hamilton Standard` on the Warwick but just wanted some reassurance. Any clue as to what the prop` is in my pics? Could it have been from a Martinet, Skua or a Walrus by any chance?

    Regards.
    Dave.

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    Dave,
    The prop in the two photos is of the Hamilton Standard counterweight type, manufactured under licence in the UK by De Havilland. The reduction gear behind the prop is of the type usually associated with the Bristol Pegasus and Mercury families (probably also found on Perseus, Taurus, etc), which would fit in with Martinet, Sunderland, Hampden, Wellington, Bombay, Harrow, Blenheim, Galdiator, Lysander, Skua, Swordfish, Albacore, Vildebeest, etc, etc.) The counterweight-type prop was non-feathering, and was superceeded by the "Hydromatic" type which was normally fitted up for feathering action (on multi-engine types) but was also fitted to single-engine fighters where feathering capability was not required. Incidentally the counterweight type HS prop was also manufactured under licence in Australia and in Japan (and probably other countries), and was fitted to many Japanese wartime type, such as Zeke (Zero), Kate, Val,, Nell, Mavis etc. (to use their western code names).
    David D

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    Default Airscrew ID

    Thanks David,

    Don`t know if that helped or hindered,as I never realised the type was used on so many aircraft types, we were trying to tie it in to two specific types, Martinet or Skua and you say it could have been used on either, so back to the drawing board.

    Thanks for the in depth reply.

    Regards.
    Dave.

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    Hi Dave the prop in question is 3 meter in diameter total, would this aid in the ID of the aircraft?

    Kevin

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    Kevin,
    These props were made in several basic sizes to cater for various ranges of engine horse power, and hence the prop shaft spline size. Cannot recall exactly how the De Havilland people people handled this, but something like three basic sizes to cater for engines of, say, 200 to 350 HP, 500 to 1500 HP, and 2000 HP and up, something like that, each with progressively larger spline size to cater for the greater horse power ratings. Once you have the spline size (which will give you approximate horsepower rating into one of these three groups) you have the hub type (I think they were called 1000, 2000, and 3000 type hubs) you then have to measure the blades as installed to give the measurement from centre of hub to blade tip to get radius and hence total diameter. Then you are getting somewhere, but be aware that most aircraft types had a range of blades types suitable for that aircraft type, particularly if earlier blade types were in short supply, or had been superceded as later types were considered superior. You would best be advised to study the official Air Publication for De Havilland counterweight-type propellers and their various applications at a good technical library - perhaps the RAF Museum or the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust would be able to advise you here. Even if you are able to identify the exact hub and blade types, and identify the basic engine type (by the surviving reduction gears) you may still not be able to pin it down to a particular aircraft type because of the great variety of blades options which were acceptable to the various possible types which used this propeller/engine combination. The blade profile may be of some help, as early blades were more pointed than later ones, but this is only a rough guide, and earlier ones would be retained in service if they were still considered useful and worth the periodical mandatory overhauls.
    David D

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    Hi David

    Thank you very much for the information relating to propellors ! I guess more dives are needed in the area to see if any more clues lay on the seabed. Just to explain, I am working with Dave Earl, Ben Wade and Emily Turton (Skipper dive boat MV Radiant Queen) to try and find some of the lost aircraft in Scapa Flow in the Orkney Isles, also so try and identify some of the aircraft bits that have been raised over the years. The museum at Lyness has a few aircraft items on display but have no idea from which aircraft they came from !

    David Earl has done a vast amount of work on the land crashes (see Hell on high ground.Vol 2) and is now keen to see what we can do for Orkney aviation history underwater :o)

    thank you once again for you help on the Lyness propellor !!

    Kevin

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