411121 - Unaccounted airwoman and airmen - 21-11-1941

**Henk Welting** · 27th January 2009, 16:50

What were the places of death registration for:

A - Died on active service:
LACW Margaret M. HALL - 422917, and
AC2 George W. WHITEHEAD - 1140348.

B - Killed on active service (while engaged on non-operational flying duties or on the ground through enemy action):
Sgt (Obs/WOp) Arthur E. NORRISH - 964603, and
P/O (Pilot) Maurice C. WOODGATE - 66607.

C- Proposed aircraft losses for this day:
Hurricane I - P3209 - 56 OTU - crashed on take-off ½ mile E of Sutton Bridge.
Lysander II - P1714 - 12 Grp - crashed on overshoot AAC Flt Digby (already as casualty on this aircraft: Sgt N.A. RITCHIE - RCAF R/76589).
Master I - T8778 - 58 OTU - dived into ground South Alloa, Clackmannanshire.
Spitfire I - P9439 - 61 OTU - crashed in forced landing Brook Nest Farm, Stevenage, Hertfordshire.
Havoc I - AH432 - 1451 Flt - flew into ground Gilston Park, 1 mile W of Harlow, Essex.
Havoc I - BT460 - 51 OTU - bellylanded Cranfield.

Regardsa and thanks for your help.
Henk.

**dennis_burke** · 27th January 2009, 17:22

A - Died on active service:
LACW Margaret M. HALL - Age 19, Reading district, Berkshire
AC2 George W. WHITEHEAD - age 32 Wolverhampton district, staffordshire

B - Killed on active service (while engaged on non-operational flying duties or on the ground through enemy action):
Sgt (Obs/WOp) Arthur E. NORRISH - Age 25 Ware District, Hertfordshire
P/O (Pilot) Maurice C. WOODGATE - Age 20 also in Ware District.

**davew** · 27th January 2009, 17:47

The two casualties registered at Ware are probably associated with Havoc AH432 of 1451 Flt which crashed at Gilston Park which is a mile or so to the SE of Hunsdon.

Regards

DaveW

**dennis_burke** · 27th January 2009, 18:19

I thought that Norrish name was familiar but didn't figure it out till Dave message,

Havoc AH432 is being discussed on 12 O'Clock High at present!
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=15136

partial quote:
"P/O M C Woodgate pilot, Sgt Norrish navigator and Sgt Smith, of 1451 Flt, 11 Group, Fighter Command were flying a weather test from Hunsdon in a Havoc II Turbinelite, night fighter, serial number AH432.
They took off at 1545 hours, 21-Nov-1944 and lost height while making a circuit of the aerodrome. The aircraft hit high trees at Gilston Park, 9 miles east of Hunsdon, while in a shallow diving attitude. The aircraft crashed into the ground with fire on impact. Both airframe and engines were Cat W.
P/O Woodgate and Sgt Norrish were killed but Sgt Smith escaped with slight injuries."

**nicks** · 27th January 2009, 19:54

Henk

Combat Ready by A Goodrum. Lists the following;

17/11/1941 Hurricane I P3209 56 OTU Wingland, Sutton Bridge Plt Off G Murray Uninjured.

I do not know whether this helps or confuses matters?

Regards

Nick

**Henk Welting** · 28th January 2009, 10:59

Thanks all for this excellent info.
Regards,
Henk.

**Henk Welting** · 17th July 2011, 11:32

Lt (Pilot) John A. SMITH - SAAF 47300, was killed 21-11-1941 and lies buried in the Halfaya Sollum War Cem., Egypt. According to Winston Brent's "85 Years of SAAF" probably killed in a Hurricane and flying with 451 (RAAF) Squadron.
Can't find a matching serial number in my Hurricane file, nor on Alan Storr's website.
Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

**COL BRUGGY** · 17th July 2011, 12:19

Henk,

Alan Storr recorded only RAAF fatalities, he has not covered 451 Sqn RAAF. The ORB does not record types or serials for November 1941.

The 451 Sqn RAAF ORB (p.47 of 615) states:

F.540

21.11.41 - L.G.132

LT SMITH with LT CAMPBELL as cover, carried out a tactical reconnaissance of the SIDI OMAR area. LT SMITH was seen by LT CAMPBELL to crash in flames a few miles from the landing ground when returning from a sortie. LT SMITH was subsequently buried COL. BOND, M.C., ASSISTANT CHAPLAIN GENERAL, officiating.

Here is the reason for the poor reporting in the November 1941, 451 Sqn ORB:

NOTE: The above records for November are incomplete and lack detail owing to the capture of portion of the A.I.L. Section and the A.L.G. Party entailing the capture and or destruction of documents icluding Flight Authorisation Books and Forms 401. (p.51 of 615)

Col.

**AL90** · 17th July 2011, 12:49

Henk,
The 451 sqn ORB, page 41, has Lt. Smith and other SAAF pilots arriving on attachement from 40sqn on the 21-10-41. There are only two entries regarding Lt. Smith his arrival and his departure near LG132 as Col has.

Alan.