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Thread: 420207 - Unaccounted airmen - 7-2-1942

  1. #11
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    Thanks Amrit. Another one for my group of "Y"-serials.
    Regards,
    Henk.

  2. #12
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    Hi Henk,

    This one's a toughy. With him being English RAF and dying in Canada as an AC2, it begs several questions. How did he die without being found? As an AC2 you wouldn't think he was flying yet or certainly not on any flight that would be lost without a trace. It could possibly be a transport flight of some kind but again, you would think it would be noted with other deaths on Geoff's search engine.

    I did a search of Canadian death records and couldn't find him, although that doesn't mean he isn't there somewhere, especially if he died out west on a training stint. I am curious now, so let me know if you find him.
    David

  3. #13
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    Thanks all for this info on the early Monday-morning, an excellent start for another week of air war 39-45 research.
    Regards,
    Henk.

  4. #14
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    Hi Henk & Dave,

    Being commemorated on the Ottawa Memorial does not necessarily indicate, 'dying in Canada', as the following will show:

    At 05.02 0n 7 Feb, 1942, the unescorted 'Empire Sun" (Master Lloyds Evans) was torpedoed and sunk by U-751 south of Halifax. Eight crew members, two gunners and one RAF personnel were lost. The Master, 34 crew members, twelve gunners and seven RAF personnel landed at Liverpool, Nova Scotia.

    See: http:www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/1320.html

    Whilst the 'one RAF personnel', is not identified, it is interesting to speculate.

    Contributions welcome.

    Col.

    PS The Empire Sun, a CAM-Ship, was en route, Portland, Maine - Halifax - UK.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 6th April 2009 at 12:03. Reason: minor addition

  5. #15
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    AC2 CROSS is discussed at length in this thread: http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1172

  6. #16
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    Thanks Col, I did think of a ship at one point but decided those losses are usually noted as "at sea" with the name of the ship attached, as was the case with my Canadian woman from Brazil. There would also likely be other losses for that date.

    I checked through the other unattached RAFVR/RAAF/RNZAF losses for that day and there doesn't seem to be any other candidates on the Ottawa Memorial. Cross is the only death on that date listed among the 796. This certainly is a good test of our sleuthing skills and I too welcome further comments/suggestions.

    Would his basic file from the UK archives specify cause of death or location? Would there be a registration of his death in the UK if it happened outside there are for Canadians?
    Last edited by dfuller52; 6th April 2009 at 18:00. Reason: number correction
    David

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    Hello Ken,

    Indeed it is! How soon we forget.

    Col.

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    Default One more to go...

    Geoff's does list these eight Merchant Marine members of the crew of the Empire Sun, all remembered on the Tower Hill Memorial. That accounts for 8 of the 11 casualties.
    CULLEN J
    DAVIES AP
    EVANS ML
    HILL JR
    KHAN R
    MCGINTY J
    MILLER A
    MULLIGAN J

    These must be the two RN gunners:
    POTTER, Robert A, Act/Able Seaman, D/JX 240806, (President III, O/P), MPK
    SHEPPARD, George G, Act/Able Seaman, P/JX 254581, (President III, O/P), MPK
    http://wow.naval-history.net/xDKCas1942-02FEB.htm

    So that only leaves the RAF fellow. With the date, it's looking very likely that it was Cross.

    His birth is registered in the Dec 1923 in his parents' home county of Wiltshire, so perhaps one of the board members with access to the UK registers can find more.

    CROSS Gerald C.G. Wiltshire Elham 2a 1851
    Last edited by dfuller52; 6th April 2009 at 15:01. Reason: addt'l info
    David

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    Thanks friends for all your comments. AHB/RAF for sure has the solution but they won't answer my request (not being a next of kin, the privacy act and lack of personnel !). Annotations made in my files.
    Regards,
    Henk.

  10. #20
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    There's something else odd about this one. I tried looking for Fleet Air Arm info and found many of the Empire CAM ships but not the Empire Sun. I also looked for it in some online Convoy files, and found it on two previous sailings from 1941, but not the sailing in early 1942. I have put in a request on the WarSailors board.

    And... the fellows who posted the original discussion a year ago, knew Henk would get to this one and were trying to work it out in advance!
    Last edited by dfuller52; 6th April 2009 at 18:07.
    David

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