Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33

Thread: Liberator Mk II AL series

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,011
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Patrick,
    Franek is correct to say that one navigator was enough, but there were some occasions where a long tour of bases around the Med was scheduled. Despite protests, some missions spanning from the UK to Alexandria, and then back, were laid on with little regard for the poor crew who were expected to fly eighteen or more hours a day, day after day.

    If I recall correctly, Bennett described one such trip and the tragic end in 'Pathfinder'. I understand that later in the war it was easier to assign extra aircrew if the flying schedue was excessively long, and it would make sense that some earlier flights took 'spares' if they were available.

    Hope this helps,
    Bruce

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    24
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Liberator AL587 Overdue

    Thank you Franek & Bruce, July 21 & 22, 2009.

    On February 6, 1943, Liberator AL587 took 08.25 hours to get from Lyneham to Gibraltar. (The Gibraltar/Cairo leg was longer at about 11 hours.) This was my father (W/O Connolly)'s third and last flight to Gibraltar. Dad had just moved up from Flight Sergeant to Warrant Officer and had about 480 flying hours at that time, where he was outranked by the other navigator; Renouf, who was a Flying Officer. On this trip there did seem to be a lot of rest time between the long flights.

    On March 23, 1943, Liberator AL587 (probably) with mostly the same crew aboard took a little longer and is overdue by about 66 years.
    Does anyone know if Liberator AL587 has come home yet?
    I am sure my father joined them in 2003 and perhaps they do need another navigator to bring them home.
    Was there a second navigator who went in my fathers place?

    From March 29, to April 12, 1944, Dad was in 44 Group Battle School, Torquay [We have the group picture.]. (Torquay is a little sea side port town in Cornwall south of Exmouth.) Perhaps Dad was not on Liberator AL587 that March because of him being slated to go to this school.
    After February Dad did not fly again until he flew his last flight in a Liberator on April 3, 1943 where he took Liberator AL625 from Lyneham to Prestwick. [He came back in Oxford 4048 but; we have a picture of Oxford AS278 with AS770 and I do not know where it was taken and I do not think Dad flew them. Sorry we have no Liberator pictures.]

    Regards, Patrick Connolly.

    February 4, 1943 10:25 AL.587 F/L Francis (Pilot). (Duty) Navigator - Consumption test. 05.35
    February 6, 1943 07:20 AL.587 F/L Francis (Pilot). (Duty) Navigator - Lyneham to Gibraltar. 08.25 hours (Day)
    February 7, 1943 19:20 AL.587 F/L Francis (Pilot). (Duty) Navigator - Gibraltar to Cairo (LG224). 02.10 hours (Day) 08.10 hours (Night)

    February 21, 1943 22:15 AL.587 F/L Francis (Pilot). (Duty) 2nd Navigator - Cairo to Gibraltar. 05.25 hours (Day) 07.00 hours (Night)
    February 27, 1943 00:45 AL.587 F/L Francis (Pilot). (Duty) 2nd Navigator - Gibraltar to Lyneham. 01.45 hours (Day) 07.00 hours (Night)

    F/L Francis Pilot}
    F/S Ferro - 2nd [Dad identified him in our crew picture]}
    F/O Renouf - Nav.} } Missing 23/3/43
    W/O Connolly - Nav.- |
    F/O Tedder - W/oP [Dad identified him in our crew picture]} } Last Heard
    Sgt. Burry - W/oP} off C.P. Finisterre [Spain]
    Sgt. Marvin - Eng.}
    Last edited by Patrick; 22nd July 2009 at 05:05. Reason: wrong rank

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    24
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Liberator AL587 shot down

    Hello Commanders, August 3, 2009.

    Well, I did my owne internet search on the world wide web to find out anything about Liberator AL587 and the search brought me right back here to RAF Commands to Ross our owne Webmaster. It seems the Germans found Liberator AL587 about 66 years ahead of us. I guess I will have to be a junior member here for a long time.

    On the 'Conferences General Questions (Public)' section a Carol Schurman asked about her husband's uncle 'Albert Bowler' who was MIA.
    On November 1st & 2nd 2007 the following letters were posted;

    Hi Carol
    Is this your husband's uncle:

    Name: BOWLER, ALBERT HENRY
    Initials: A H
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Flying Officer
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: 511 Sqdn.
    Date of Death: 23/03/1943
    Service No: 124347
    Additional information: Son of Albert H. and Ethel M. Bowler; husband of Bridget Bowler, of Borrowash, Derbyshire.
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 123.
    Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

    [Amrit]
    - -
    This Bowler was killed when Liberator AL587 was shot down by Lt Ulrich Hanshen of 15,/KG40 in position PLQ 14W/2586 at 14:20 hrs during a transit flight to Gibraltar.

    F/L G T R Francis
    F/Sgt C E Ferro RCAF
    Sgt L G Burry
    Sgt R P Marvin
    F/O J S Renouf RCAF
    F/O R S Tedder
    AVM R P M Whitham CB OBE MC
    Sgt F N Boustead
    F/O J G Green
    F/Sgt W J Hough RNZAF
    P/O A H Bowler [F/O - 511 Sqdn.]
    F/O F Stuart RAAF
    F/O O A Smith RCAF
    F/O T J Marriott RCAF
    Sgt W A Upston
    Sgt N R Knights
    Lt P S Skelton
    Col J E Merin
    Lt Col L W Armstrong-McDonnell

    Regards Ross [McNeill]
    - -
    Carol,
    If yes, then according to London Gazette he is Leading Aircraftman to become Pilot Officer (on probation) on 27 June 1942 (LG, 35661) and Flying Officer (on probation) on 27 December 1942 (LG, 35919).

    Mikkel Plannthin
    - -
    Ross,
    Army Lt.Col found: was Lucius W. ARMSTRONG-MACDONNELL - 51929 of the Irish Guards, attd Combined Operations HQ, commemorated on the Brookwood Memorial Panel 8 Column 2.
    MERIN was a French Colonel. Will go after his name.
    Regards,
    Henk [Welting].
    - -

    I would assume that;
    Francis, Ferro, Burry, Marvin, Renouf and Tedder were the flight crew of Liberator AL587;

    Green, Hough, Bowler, Stuart, Smith and Marriott were a full flight crew for a 511 Sqdn. Liberator but were passengers on AL587;

    Perhaps - Whitham, Boustead, Upston, Knights, Skelton, Merin and Armstrong-McDonnell were VIPs and Army personnel on their way to the war in Africa.

    It was a terrible loss of life.

    Perhaps no room for a second navigator but I hope you have room for this letter here.
    Dad identified Ferro and Tedder in our crew picture back in about the late 1970's.
    I think we have Ferro in another picture but it is not certain. In the background is some famous square, maybe.
    Dad seems to have stopped taking pictures of people and listing his crew members after this.
    Making friends and loosing them may have become too hard.
    I do not think Dad never knew Liberator AL587 was shot down. Some of these thing one can not face to look at if you want to go on and get in that airplane the next day - where the character played by Gregory Peck in 'Twelve O'Clock High' could not.

    Regards, Patrick T. Connolly.
    Last edited by Patrick; 3rd August 2009 at 13:12. Reason: spelling

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    24
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Sergeant Victor Elkins A/G

    We have a picture of my father's Liberator crew for September 1942 at 1653 Liberator Cu Burn Yorks [Father did not fly in October & November, 1942, as he waited for 511 Squadron to form.].

    Dad listed a "SGT. Elkins [or 'Elnins'] A/G" in that crew and added he was "Missing On Ops." The back of the picture says "Vic", "Vie" or "Vik" for the last man on the right of the picture.
    The Runnymede Memorial says a Sergeant Victor Elkins died on Mar. 12, 1943.
    http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Elkins&GScid=2139034&GRid=1525 2061&
    Perhaps it is the same person.
    I could not find any Liberator I's or II's that went down that day from Joseph Baugher's site.

    I added sections of this picture for Flying Officer Ronald Tedder at the findagrave, Runnymede Memorial site, thing;
    http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=15264617

    Sergeant Victor Elkins A/G has no picture at the findagrave at the Runnymede Memorial site thing and I may add this picture there. Can anyone give any more information to confirm that this is the same guy?

    Regards Patrick. September 11, 2009.
    Last edited by Patrick; 11th September 2009 at 10:16.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Bewdley, UK
    Posts
    2,700
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Hi Patrick,

    Sgt V H Elkins, 1330229 was a WOp/AG lost onboard No.102 Sqn Halifax JB836 on operations to Essen.

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    24
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Sergeant Victor Elkins WOp/AG 1330229 No.102 in Sqn Halifax JB836

    Thank you Ross, January 3, 2010.

    I posted the picture of Vic on the Runnymede Memorial site back in September. Our evidence that he was a "A/G" seems to make a match.

    Happy New Year, Patrick.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    24
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Flying Crew of Liberator AL587 Photo

    Hello Everyone, January 3 & 9, 2010.

    By the way Ross lists them and my assumption of Father's story, the flying crew members of AL587 (which went down March 23, 1943) were; Francis, Burry, Marvin, Renouf, Ferro and Tedder.

    My father flew with these same lost 6 flying? members of AL587's March crew, to Cairo in February 1943, in the same Liberator AL587.

    My father took many pictures of Cairo scenery on this February trip and they seem to be of the same lot of pictures as a picture of my father and 2 other men. Thus the 2 men must be the Crew of Liberator AL587.

    I think one of these men may be Tedder and the other may be either be Francis, Burry, Marvin, or Renouf.

    Is there any way of seeing early 511 Squadron pictures of Renouf, Francis, Burry, Marvin or Tedder, to verify?

    Happy New Year, Patrick.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Flight Seargent Carlo Ferro

    Hi,

    I am looking for information about the co-pilot on AL587, which went down on March 23, 1943. He was Flight Sergeant Carlo (also known as Lino) Ernesto Ferro of the RCAF. He was my grandmother's brother. When we were little she told us many stories about him and showed us his letters home, which she still had. Lately I have been trying to research more about him, which led me to this sight and this thread in particular. Any information that anyone has would be appreciated.

    Patrick, it appears that your father knew, and flew with, Carlo. Any information that you would be able to provide would be particularly welcome. Do you still have the photos of Carlo?

    Thank you,

    Robert_Z

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Wa upston

    Nice to see al587 mentioned again wa upston is my wifes grandfathers, brother and was a passenger on al587 he was on 511 sqn returning aircrew ? From gibraltar. He came from cirencester gloucestershire not far from lyneham in wiltshire

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    24
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Carl Ferro at Trafalgar Square & Veterans affairs Canada

    Hello Robert, December 12 & 23, 2010.

    Yes, it was 'Ferro' that father could still identify in the 1970's.
    'Carl' is written on the back of a picture that I thought looked like 'Ferro' when I diid not know his first name.

    Between, training together at '1653 Liberator Cu Burn Yorks' up north in York and both going into the new 511 Squadron in the south-west, Carl Ferro and my father (Thomas Connolly) must have gone on leave together and visited London in November 1942.

    What we have is a couple of snap shots of Dad, Carl and "Hindy" (SGT. Hindmarsh A/G another member of the crew for September 1942 in 1653 Liberator Cu) at Trafalgar Square feeding the pigeons in November 1942.
    Hindmarsh being a gunner (I guess) probably did not go into 511 Squadron.

    My father did not fly in October & November of 1942.

    Regards, Patrick.

    "Carl" - "F/S Carlo Ferro 2nd Pilot" [became Warrant Officer Class I by March 1943]

    A while back I found better quality picture of of Carlo Ernesto Ferro on 'Veterans affairs Canada' s web site.
    The info is at;
    http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/virtualmem/Detail&casualty=1269966

    The big photo;
    http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/content/collections/virtualmem/photoview.cfm?casualty=1269966&photo=4143

    Merry Christmas!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •