Allied Air Forces PoWs in Europe

[Resmoroh]

Dear All,
If anyone has the dates when the below listed Allied aircrew were either posted as "Missing", or notified as being "PoW" I would be extremely grateful (Sqn and a/c serial would be a bonus - but are not necessary at this stage).
D J Burbury, RAAF (703)
J W Dicker, RAAF, (402274)
H Esteld, RNoAF, (378)
W T McKeown, RNZF, (405607)
TIA
Peter Davies

[dennis_burke]

For your Australians always check the Nominall Roll website:

www.ww2roll.gov.au

Name BURBURY, DAVID JOHN
Service Royal Australian Air Force
Service Number 250703
Date of Birth 26 Mar 1912
Place of Birth OATLANDS, TAS
Date of Enlistment 5 Feb 1940
Locality on Enlistment Unknown
Place of Enlistment ESSENDON
Next of Kin BURBURY, C
Date of Discharge 23 Oct 1945
Rank Flight Lieutenant
Posting at Discharge 1 MEDICAL REHABILITATION UNIT
WW2 Honours and Gallantry None for display
Prisoner of War Yes

Name DICKER, JOHN WILFRED
Service Royal Australian Air Force
Service Number 402274
Date of Birth 24 Jan 1921
Place of Birth SYDNEY, NSW
Date of Enlistment 8 Jan 1940
Locality on Enlistment Unknown
Place of Enlistment ARCHERFIELD
Next of Kin DICKER, A
Date of Discharge 27 Oct 1945
Rank Flight Lieutenant
Posting at Discharge 2 MEDICAL REHABILITATION UNIT
WW2 Honours and Gallantry None for display
Prisoner of War Yes


And then the Record Search Function of the National Archives of Australia.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx

BURBURY, David John - (Flight Lieutenant); Service Number - 250703; File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Tomahawk AK464; Place - Middle East; Date - 14 September 1941

DICKER, John Wilfred - (Flight Lieutenant); Service Number - 402274; File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Lancaster R5610; Place - Europe; Date - 24 August 1942

Dickers files area all scanned and available for viewing.


From:
http://www.adf-serials.com/aa12.shtml
AK464 Mk.IIB 15335 served with 3 Sqn RAAF under RAF control; 11/7/41 F/O Robert Henry Maxwell Gibbes (260714) shot down a Dewoitine D520 which was his first victory; 14/9/41 F/O David John Burbury (250703) was shot down during an attack on Gambut airfield and he was declared MIA but was in fact a POW.

and

http://www.rafwyton.co.uk/wytonlosses1942.html
24-25 August
83 Sq Lancaster I R5610 OL-G
F/O O R Matheson DFC Evd
Sgt P Squires died
F/L R M Bunchan DFC died
F/L J W Dicker RAAF POW
F/S W R Cubberley POW
Sgt E V Norman died
Sgt H D Quintrell. Died

I won't vouch for accuracy of either website but its a start. Google the aircraft serials given above.

[Resmoroh]

Dennis,
Very many tks for that info (and for taking the time and trouble to post it). Much appreciated.
We are looking for dates to exclude (or include!) various aircrew at Dulag Luft, Obersursel. Clearly (I hope!!) Burbury has excluded himself - he would have been (one supposes) processed by Dulag Luft (ME) and then sent to PoW Camp L3.
I had thought that PoW Camp L3 was an Officers Only camp - but it seems that there were SNCO Aircrew there as well! Perhaps one of the PoW Camp Experts may care to comment.
Rgds
Peter Davies

[Errol Martyn]

Peter,

NZ405607 W T McKeown was shot down during he Dieppe raid on 19 Aug 42 while flying with 239 Sqn.

Errol

[Resmoroh]

Errol,
VMT yr rapid response. Much appreciated.
Yrs Aye
Peter Davies

[Henk Welting]

Peter,
Have no info on the Norwegian ESTELD. His PoW-info was L3-643. Strange that same info was allotted to P/O R.C. CARROLL - 69467; PoW 10/11-1-1941 on Wellington R1219 of 101 Sqn.
Regards,
Henk.

[Resmoroh]

Henk,
Thanks your response. Stein Meum may have the answer?
I note the duplication with R C CARROLL. There are, in fact, some 6 duplications (and 1 triplication) of L3 Numbers just in the Block L3-640 to L3-660. The man I am chasing is L3-651. This is duplicated by I H KINGWELL, RAF (42349), 144 Sqn AE316, who went missing on 24 Oct 41. My man, Heggtveit, RCAF, did not go missing until 1 Sep 42. There are clearly some problems, and I would have thought that the German thoroughness would not have allowed duplicated numbers at the same PoW Camp (however many compounds it may have had) at the same time.
My aim - in trying to obtain some info on those in the block L3-640 to L3-660 - was to have a spreadsheet which I could order this way, and then that way, to see if any pattern emerged. It has! It is all chaos!! Ross was dead right when he warned me (off board) that trying to make sense of PoW numbers will only lead to The Men In White Coats knocking at my door to take me away, in The Plain White Van, to a cool, dark, quiet, cell with padded walls!!
Yrs Aye
Peter Davies

[Henk Welting]

Peter,
Suppose you're looking for F/O Carl E. HEGGTVEIT (HEGGTVERT) RCAF J/15379 from Ottawa, Ontario. He was 521 Sqn on a Met Flt and landed his Spitfire (serial unfortunately unknown) accidentally on the German airfield St.Trond in Belgium, 1-9-1942. Was his PoW-info - like KINGWELL - L3-651 ??).
Regards from a very hot and sticky continent,
Henk.

[Ross_McNeill]

Ok here is the sequence,

Guy A shot down 01/01/42. Transferred to Dulag 02/01/42. Transferred to L3 16/01/42. Given number X.
Guy B shot down 01/01/42. Injured and treated in hospital 01/02/42. Transferred to Dulag 02/02/42. Transferred to L3. Given number X+55.
Guy C shot down 01/01/42. Transferred to Dulag 02/01/42. Transferred to L3 16/01/42. Given number X-235.

Red Cross visit checks camp records and records PoW numbers
A L3 X
B L3 X+55
C L3 X-235

London advised.

Next month
Guy B transferred to L6. Given number Y-201.
Guy D Transferred to L3. Given number X+55

Red Cross visit checks L3 camp records and records PoW numbers
D L3 X+55

Camp L6 still waiting for next Red Cross Visit

London advised
London records
Guy B X+55
Guy D X+55

If they wait long enough the records will sort themselves out but the PoW lists I transcribed are valid for Feb-May 1944 so the duplications and triplications are still frozen in time.

Now consider the mechanisim for recording. No computer only a comptroller. They are using a card (eg rolldex) or clock card board. If you start from 1 and do not reuse then you are forever adding cards and old cards are wasted.

Move the PoW on then all you need to do is score out his name on the card and pen in the new one. Could reuse the card say 8 or 10 times without needing to add a new clock card board or card to the rolldex.

Now add that a PoW purged from a Army controlled camp to an Air Force camp and vice versa nearly always were given a new PoW number.

Peter if you forceland a Spitfire at an nightfighter base you will be treated differently to someone shotdown regardless of if you are RCAF, RAF or RAAF.

Regards
Ross

[Ross_McNeill]

Stalag Luft 3 consisted of initially two compounds.

East compound for Officers and the other for NCOs called the Centre Compound. West Compound opened March 1944

Regards
Ross