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Thread: Map coordinates translation

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    Default Map coordinates translation

    I have a report from the MRES on the crash location of Mosquito HP933 on 22 Feb 1945 which specifies the location as Bevern, Germany, Map Ref. L54/R9539.

    Can someone help me locate this?
    Last edited by dfuller52; 24th July 2009 at 10:18.
    David

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    Hi David,

    This is the best wartime co-ordinate translator I know.

    http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-welcome.php

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

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    L54 refers to the 1:250,000 scale map that covers Hamburg and surounding area.
    The coordinate you quote is a Nord de Guerre Zone (Modified British System) coordinate.
    The full version would be rR9549.
    This converts to Latitude : 53° 26' 15'' N, Longitude : 9° 09' 52'' E .
    Which is less than 1km SW of Bevern.

    Regards
    Andy

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    Thanks Andy, I was just puzzling over that very thing using Ross' suggested translator (thanks Ross). Although the coordinate listed on the report is R9539 it translates to exactly the long/lat you gave. Not sure how you got rR out of it, but I am enjoying a pint while the family's away, so I won't try too hard to exercise the gray matter over it just now.

    The crew of HP933 were:
    P/O Peter Harold Burne, RCAF, Pilot (J88797) - the Malvern chap I'm researching.
    F/Lt. Allan Jerry Vickers, RCAF, Nav. (J13115)

    The other 487 Sqn aircraft mentioned in this report are: HR356, PZ395 and RS569.
    The crew of the other aircraft were as follows:

    HR 356
    F/Lt. P.C.W/ Sage, DFC, Pilot (113425)
    F/O J. Cockburn, DFM, Nav. (145110)

    The registrar of the village gave this crash location as 1,000 yards northwest of the village near the railway line Bremervorde-Rotenburg.

    PZ395
    S/Ldr R.W. Baker, DFC, Pilot (NZ 401748)
    F/Lt. A.J. Fowler, Nav. (NZ 422654)

    RS659
    F/Lt. H.E. Miller, Pilot (138448)
    F/Sgt. W. Hooper (1684356)
    Last edited by dfuller52; 22nd July 2009 at 21:56.
    David

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    Hi David:

    Does the report give crash locations for PZ395 and RS659?

    Cheers,

    Mark

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    Hi Mark,

    No, unfortunately not. It is oddly worded and there is a section headed "Aircraft" which only mentions a witness saying two similar aircraft were shot down by flak on the same day in February 1945, one of which crashed in a field 1,000 yards NW of the village near the railway line Bremervorde-Roteberg.

    The remains of the aircraft were taken away by Wermacht soldiers but there was still evidence of wood, metal and two bomb casings, one marked "RD X/TNT".

    The crew of HR356 were buried together in Bevern Cemetery on 22 Feb 1945.

    The report writer then says, "As instructed I proceeded to Bevern..." where he found the information about HP933 and gave the only map reference in the report. The report was mainly about discovering what happened to HR356.

    The report is dated 7 Oct 1946.
    David

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    Dave,

    Re PZ395.

    From my 'For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Two: Fates 1943-1998)':

    Thu 22 Feb 1945
    2nd TACTICAL AIR FORCE
    Armed reconnaissance over the Hamburg-Bremen-coast area, Germany
    487 Squadron, RNZAF (B87 [Rosières-en-Santerre], France - 140 Wing, 2 Group)
    Mosquito FB.VI PZ395/E - took off at 1100 and was one of two Mosquitoes shot down NW of Hamburg, crashing near Bevern, 7km east of Elsmhorn. The two crew were buried at Bevern, but later reinterred at Becklingen, 17km south of Soltau.
    Pilot: NZ401748 Wg Cdr Reginald William BAKER, DFC mid, RNZAF - Age 29. 1002hrs. 194th op.
    Navigator: NZ422654 Flt Lt Alexander John FOWLER, RNZAF - Age 22. 589hrs. 25th op.
    Baker had been appointed commanding officer of the Squadron as recently as 14 January. All but 8 of his ops were flown during a two year tour with 485 Sqn, RNZAF.
    Lost on his 4th op with the Squadron, Fowler had also flew seven with 214 Sqn and 14 with 161 Sqn, RAF.

    And from Vol Three (Biographies & Appendices):

    p325; BAKER & FOWLER – take off also recorded as 1110. One of two 487 Sqn Mosquitoes shot down within minutes of one another and a few hundred metres apart, at about 1315, by railway flak 2km NW of Bevern, both crews being killed. PZ395 crashed on the far side of the Bremervörde-Rotenburg line. Delete second sentence of the footnote. Add to footnote: The ‘reconnaissance’ was part of Operation CLARION, in which nearly 9000 Allied aircraft attacked the enemy’s transportation and communications. The cost to 487 Sqn was disastrous, five of its Mosquitoes being shot down for the deaths of all but two aircrew.

    Errol

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    Thanks Errol. Does your book have any info on the other 487 Sqn losses?

    (Sorry message is brief - She Who Must Be Obeyed is on at me...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhuxt View Post
    Thanks Errol. Does your book have any info on the other 487 Sqn losses?

    (Sorry message is brief - She Who Must Be Obeyed is on at me...)
    Mark,

    No, my books deal only with those losses where New Zealanders were among the fatalities.

    Errol

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    Thanks Errol.

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