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Thread: 31 Squadron Airman

  1. #31
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    Default Re: martin

    Matt,

    MA929 was 42-6481 (c/n.4933), in the opinion of the late Jennifer Gradidge. DC-3 The First Seventy Years Vol.2, p.344.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 29th May 2020 at 18:27.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: martin

    Hi, Col,

    Thanks for that.

    Jennifer Gradidge has it wrong, too (based on Clayton's photographic evidence). And here's what Joe Baugher says about 42-6481, not that it is accurate:

    6481 (MSN 4933) to USAAF May 8, 1942. To UK May 21, 1942. To Egypt Jun 12, 1942.
    to RAF as Dakota II FJ710 Jun 1942. 117 Sqdn RAF. Appears as Dakota IV
    on RAF record card. No record of fate.

    We keep snooping and scratching our heads, and sometimes we figure things out.

    Cheers,

    Matt

  3. #33
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    Default Re: 31 Squadron Airman

    Matt,

    So there is no misunderstanding (rightly, or wrongly), here are the complete entries from Gradidge's, DC-3 the First Seventy Years, Vol.2:

    4907-5000 including 42-6455 to 42-6504 - C-53-DO - Contract No. AC-20667, delivered to Long Beach (p.343).

    4931 - 42-6479 - C-53 08May42 - UK 28May42 - Egypt - 12Jun42 - FJ709 RAF - 117 Sq - MA928 - 31 Sq - Cr 25Mar43 Agartala, India. (p.343).

    4933 - 42-6481 - C-53 08May42 - UK 21May42 - Egypt 12Jun42 - FJ710 RAF - 117 Sq 1943 - MA929 31 Sq - Missing 27 Jan43 Tezpur to Dinjan, India. (p.344).

    The Douglas DC-1/DC-2/DC-3 The First Seventy Years - Volume 2.
    Gradidge,Jennifer in collaboration with Douglas D Olson, David W Lucabaugh, Allan Bovelt, John M Davis and John A Whittle.
    Tonbridge:Air-Britain (Historians),2006.
    pp.343-344.

    I don't think there is much doubt that the aircraft lost was MA929. Granted, Gradidge could have mixed up the MSNs.

    Forget Joe Baugher. Most of his material on the RAF was sourced from out of date, sometimes incorrect and incomplete Air-Britain data. The ASN data is based on Alan Storr's material, which in turn is derived from the files of the two members of the RAAF aboard MA929.

    The prescribed route for Agartala - Fort Hertz flights, was: AGARTALA-TEZPUR-DINJAN-FORT HERTZ.

    What intrigues me, is, why are the six airmen listed on the CWGC (and elsewhere), with a date of death of, 31 January, 1943?

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 30th May 2020 at 05:54.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: 31 Squadron Airman

    Thanks, Col.

    I agree -- I've found many things wrong with the Baugher material, but it is a brilliant database, nevertheless. Well, except how can one trust the info? At least it's a starting point! There are millions of tidbits of data, largely accurate, I'd guess.

    I also agree that the anomaly on the date is baffling. ORBs are known to be error-prone, from my experience, so maybe some bored clerk made a simple error of choosing 27 January '43, not the 31st, when writing up the ORB, and the error has been taken as gospel by many. However, the actual "Circumstantial Report" on the loss, plus the CWGC info, states that the loss was on 31 January. I'm inclined to go with 31 January -- BUT IT MAY BE ERRONEOUS!

    For what it's worth, the book (I've decided to edit out the name of this book) -- considered the standard reference work for this theater of the war, along with his two earlier books, (names edited out) -- has nothing about this loss or the men who died. That's no surprise, as this book has many holes. But this isn't known to readers, most likely. Sorry, but I hold a grudge, because long before publication, I offered the author accurate info on the loss of two Liberators on 29 Feb '44, and he said, no thanks, because he'd found what he needed on the web. And then he seriously screwed up the 29 Feb '44 info in the book, though I think everything I've seen on the web was basically accurate. I won't go on criticizing, though I have further serious issues. I've seen (the book with the wrong 29 Feb '44 info) quoted as fact on this forum. Most of what has been printed is likely very accurate info, but, unfortunately, I will always be sceptical.

    That said, I also understand the immense value of the author's work, and the impossibility that all info he received was accurate. We can't get everything right. Take the conundrum with the date of death of the MA929 casualties, as an example -- a different date in different official records. So, despite my pouting, I tip my hat to the author.
    Last edited by Matt Poole; 31st May 2020 at 00:18.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: 31 Squadron Airman

    Hallo Matt Poole
    Thank you for the amazing news that MA929 has been found. It is something my sister and I never expected. And the photos are a bonus. We always assumed the plane crashed in dense jungle so to see it amidst snow was a surprise. How do I contact Clayton to thank him, and request any further details please?
    Best wishes
    Christine Roshanzamir

  6. #36
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    Default Re: 31 Squadron Airman

    Hi, Christine,

    Yes! I was hoping you would find my posting on this old thread! I just found J.J.J.F. Casaubon's niece and nephew on Facebook, after learning their names from their father's 2015 obituary, but I haven't made contact yet. Clayton and I are in touch with David Stephens, nephew of pilot H.J.M. Campbell, and now you, and hopefully I'll receive a reply from the Casaubon kin. I tried phoning the number in posting #21 on pg 3, but it's not his number any more. His late wife was N.L. Baugh's niece, and I don't know his surname, only his name Martin. Still, progress is being made, which is great.

    You can contact Clayton via his website's upper right "Contact Us" link. You can contact me at: feb2944 AT aol DOT com . I wonder if you have a decent resolution photo of John Orson Nicholls. Clayton would like to put photos of the men on his website, and we only have Casaubon and Campbell, so far.

    This is great news!

    Are you in touch with any of the families?

    Cheers,

    Matt [ADDENDUM: Christine and I have been corresponding directly by email since I posted this message.]
    Last edited by Matt Poole; 4th June 2020 at 03:26. Reason: typo fixed, addendum added at the end

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