Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: 20-21 July 1944 2nd Courtrai raid Lancaster losses

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    428
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default 20-21 July 1944 2nd Courtrai raid Lancaster losses

    Hello and good morning to you all,

    I am currently working on the losses on 20-21 July 1944, and need confirmation on the cause of loss and also the time of crash of the following two Lancasters that were engaged in the 2nd Courtrai (Kortrijk) raid of that night:
    -101 Sqn Lancaster W4967
    -460 Sqn Lancaster ND654

    Thanks for any help!

    Cheers, Theo

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    203
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Theo,

    One of my grandfathers served as a bomb aimer with 460 Sqdn during this period. I have a copy of the ORB (form 540) and the following is recorded (print not clear, so forgive any errors):

    "20.7.44 Weather - cloudy. Operations. 22 aircraft were briefed for operations against COURTRAI, one aircraft ??? Lancaster ND 654 containing A410065 P/O Jobling, R.W., Pilot, Sgt Butler, F/E, A419198 F/S Moffitt, R.B., A/B, R68667, CA SGT Cawley, J.G., NAV, A426279 AUS F/S ?????, M.J., ??P/AIR, SGT MILES, R. A/G, A415057 AUS F/S ROSS???, L.G., A/G, failed to return from this raid. (more about Village Inn training and visit by senior personnel)"

    I don't have the F541 as my grandfather didn't fly on this particular op.

    Given there are both Australian and Canadian personnel on board, you might find something at the Australian Archives site or through Canadian contacts.

    The Australian Archives has digitised the 460 Sqdn ORB in full, so I am sure you could find the form 541 if needed.

    If no one else is forthcoming from existing sources, the Archives are only 10 mins travel from my workplace and I could order the files for the Australian personnel and see what that has to say, but that would take around 2 weeks to get the answer.

    Adrian
    Interests include Spitfires in Malta 1942 and 460 Sqdn 1943-44 (including Black Thursday)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kelowna British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    61
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi Theo
    I can only provide information on the crew for 101 Squadron. The thing I found interesting from the ORB was their T/O time, recorded as 0006. The rest of the aircraft on that op took off between 2330 and 2400 hrs.
    The crew was as follows:
    Can. P/O G.E.F. Smith J85722
    Sgt. C. Custance
    Can. W/O G.A. Noble R.147801
    Sgt. B.C.Reeves
    Can. Sgt. R.A.Simpson R.171384
    Sgt. H. McGuigan
    Sgt.H. Grisdale
    Can. W/O C.H.Woelfe R.116776
    Comments: Aircraft missing, no news since take off.
    By the way, thanks for the mention of my Dad in your last book. F/L Elmer John Trotter, shot down on the return from Russelsheim, Aug.12/13,1944.
    My book of his wartime service as a Pathfinder pilot is now published.

    Leslie

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Shepperton
    Posts
    737
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Smith crew, 101 Sqn

    Hi Leslie

    Hope you don't mind this observation but I just wondered why it was 'interesting' that they took off at 00:06. If the others took off by midnight that's only a 6-minute delay. Surely that could have been caused by any number of minor hitches or faults? The navigator probably forgot his road atlas, or something like that! :-)

    Or am I missing something?

    In my current research (Lubeck raid 1942) I puzzling at the moment over why for one plane which failed to return (and which isn't listed in the ORB) Chorley gives a take-off time about 2 hours before the rest of the squadron's times listed in the ORB. The loss time/location would seem to rule out such an early t/o time. Let me work that one out!

    Regards

    Ian

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kelowna British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    61
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Ian
    I think I wasn't thinking when I looked at it. It just looked odd and I never spent time to realize there wasn't much difference in the take off times.
    Leslie

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    428
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello Adrian, Leslie and Ian,

    Many thanks for your useful replies. And Adrian, do you have any photos (from your Grandfather's collection) of 460 Squadron Lancasters? I am asking you this, as in the planned 2nd, revised, edition of the Nachtjagd War Diaries (due out in 2014), I would like to publish a few photos of 460 Squadron Lancasters.

    You can email me at theoboitenATversatel.nl

    Cheers, Theo

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    203
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Theo Boiten View Post
    And Adrian, do you have any photos (from your Grandfather's collection) of 460 Squadron Lancasters? I am asking you this, as in the planned 2nd, revised, edition of the Nachtjagd War Diaries (due out in 2014), I would like to publish a few photos of 460 Squadron Lancasters.
    Hi Theo, I'll ask my mum to send me the photos of my grandfather on CD and see what is there. I'll contact you offline once I receive it (probably a week or two). My grandfather served with 460 Sqdn from late April through July 1944.

    Another family member served as a navigator with 460 Sqdn from May to December 1943 (KIA).

    The Australian War Memorial has a large collection of military photos which are searchable online. You may find something of interest there.

    Adrian
    Interests include Spitfires in Malta 1942 and 460 Sqdn 1943-44 (including Black Thursday)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •