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Thread: DORNIER Do 17Z (2814). Rotherfield. Sussex

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    Default DORNIER Do 17Z (2814). Rotherfield. Sussex

    I'm trying to assemble information from various sources regarding the following loss:

    DORNIER Do 17Z (2814). Target London docks. Shot down by Flight Sergeant Kominsk of No. 310 Squadron and crashed near Red Lane Farm, Rotherfield 12.15 p.m. Obergefr. Boehme, Gefr. Holdenried, Gefr. Kottutsch and Oberfhr. Wagner all killed. Aircraft F1+AT a write off.

    Presumably this is the same a/c as that recorded by Sussex Police as being near to the Bicycle Arms pub?

    THere's no Red lane Farm, but I believe locals refered to Rotherfield lane as Red lane in the war,

    Dave

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    Hello Dave,

    The Czech airman you mention (Flight Sergeant Kominsk), is in fact; 787980 Josef Kominek. BoBT&N MkV/647 & 775, incorrect, l'm afraid.

    See: The Blitz Then and Now Vol.2 pp.102-3 and, http://cz-raf.hyperlink.cz/Bio/kominek.html

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 21st September 2009 at 05:48. Reason: minor correction

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    Default Hi Col.

    Thanks for the correction.

    I read an eyewitness account somewhere (will try to find it), that the whole (Spitfire) squadron, each in turn, had a go at this Dornier.

    I presume Kominek threw the last punch, so to speak, or why else would he be credited.

    Do you know if the BLITZ THEN AND NOW VOL3 includes a/c losses as well?

    DAve

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    Hi Dave,

    It appears as if Kominek, 'Threw the first punch'!. Here is the full entry from TBT&N2/102-3.

    SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 15 (1940)

    9./KG76
    Dornier Do 17Z (2814).

    Port engine set alight in attack by Flight Sergeant J. Kominek of No. 310 (Czech) Squadron during bombing sortie to London. Further engaged by Sergeants C. A. L. Hurry and G. W. Jefferys of No. 46 Squadron and bombs dumped blind. Probably that also attacked by Pilot Officer V. M. M. Ortmans and Sergeant R. J. Ommaney of No. 229 Squadron. Crashed and burned out at Argos Hill Lodge, Red Lane Farm, Rotherfield 12.20 p.m. Obergefr. K. Bohme, Gefr. J. Kotonc [sic] and Lt. A. Wagner killed. Gefr. P. Holdenried attempted to bale out but killed due to parachute fouling the tailplane. Aircraft F1+AT a write-off.

    Site investigated by the London Air Museum. Many surface fragments recovered including parachute buckles, uniform buttons and chunks of melted alloy, now held by the Tangmere Military Aviation Museum. Steel Hemet donated to Robertsbridge Aviation Society said to have originated from this aircraft.

    TBT&N1-3, "chronicles in detail only those German aircraft which fell in or close to Britain." (Vol.1 p.8).

    Volume 3 covers the period, May 16/17, 1941 to May 8, 1945.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 21st September 2009 at 12:50. Reason: minor correction

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    Default Gefr. P. Holdenried

    Thanks very much Col for all this.
    I was trying to find the newspaper article published that week, which told of how the Dornier was still firing at the assailants right until impact.
    Do you know in which position Gefr. P. Holdenried was operating?
    Dave
    Last edited by david cullen; 22nd September 2009 at 15:51. Reason: .

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    Default Gefr Peter Holdenried

    9./KG76 Dornier Do17Z-3 (2814). Port engine set alight in attack by F/Sgt J. Kominek of No.310 (Czech) Squadron during sortie to London. Further engaged by Sgt C.A.L. Hurry and Sgt G.W. Jefferys of No.46 Squadron and bombs dumped blind before crashing at Argos Hill Lodge, Red Lane Farm, Rotherfield, 12.20 p.m. Probably that also attacked by P/O V.M.M. Ortmans and Sgt R.J. Ommaney of No.229 Squadron. BO Obergefr Kurt Böhme, BS Gefr Hans Kotouc and FF Oberfhr Anton Wagner all killed, BF Gefr Peter Holdenried attempted to bale out but killed due to parachute fouling the tailplane. Aircraft F1+AT 100% write-off.
    Site investigated by the London Air Museum. Many surface fragments recovered including parachute buckles, uniform buttons and chunks of melted alloy, now held by Tangmere Military Aviation Museum.

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    Default BoB T&N

    Many thanks Peter, I should try and get a copy og BoB T&N or TB T&N.
    Dave

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    hi everyone - a little more information regarding the previously posted information, which corrects a misconception

    Red Lane is not the same as Rotherfield Lane - it actually runs north/south from location TQ572282 to TQ574267 - it was used to move grain from Paynes Farm up to Argos Hill windmill, when it was working. There is - as far as I know - nowhere called Red Lane Farm, but Paynes was certainly "the farm on Red Lane".

    Your other point of reference, the Bicycle Arms pub, is at TQ570284

    You can enter these co-ordinates on streetmap.co.uk to bring up maps - arrows will show the exact locations - best to zoom out one step from the initial view for the clearest version

    Not sure if you are aware, but there is also http://magic.defra.gov.uk which provides more detailed, larger scale which may help in pinpointing locations - you can search this using the same co-ordinates as above

    hope this helps !

    Would have loved to post clickable links and example maps, but I can't as the requisite encoding options are turned off - sorry

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    Hello everyone, Mystery solved! After 18 months of record checking and lots of discussion with various SME's cross checking a handful of 1980's dig photo's with constabulary reports and lengthy discussion with locals who were there at the time I finally visited this crash spot on Saturday 13th Aug and know exactly where Dornier F1+AT came down. I have taken a few snaps if anyone is interested. (This was a much harder challenge than the other German airplane that crashed, Walter Rubensdorffers bf110 that was a piece of cake to locate & visit compared to this one).

    So Bicycle Arms? Argos Hill? Paynes Farm? Red Lane Farm?

    The crash site is a field and copse with pond north of Burwood on the Bicycle Arms road. Red Lane farm is long gone but houses bearing the name #1 & #2 Red Lane are on the approximate spot of the farm on the A267 Tunbridge Wells rd. The fields and land would be behind it. The site is on private land and not accessible to the public without prior permission. It was burning so violently when it came down, that it set fire to a number of pine trees now gone also. For interest further along the Bicycle Arms road towards the junction with the A267 is the field where one of the Seachlight batteries was located. Back in the other direction towards Rotherfield is the spot of one of the few V1's that crashed in the parish.
    Last edited by keepituryens; 17th August 2016 at 18:03.

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    Link to my article with some photo's of the crash spot

    https://keepituryens.wordpress.com/2...serial-f1at-2/

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