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Thread: Hampden X2990 83 Squadron lost 26-27/10/1940

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    Default Hampden X2990 83 Squadron lost 26-27/10/1940

    Hi, well i was telling my Mother about my progress in tracing the crew of BK646 (largely down to responses in this forum). She revealed that her best friends brother died (Kenneth Ernest Young) in 1940 while with 83 squadron. From CWWG and lostbombers I traced it to :

    Hampden X2990

    (Information cut and paste deleted: Ross)

    Am I correct in assuming that as the aircraft was lost and no crew survived, then little more information is discoverable ?

    Sadly , they died in 1940 minelaying in the Gironde, the same task which claimed my wifes grandfather in 1943
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 15th January 2008 at 19:48. Reason: Copyright infringment removed

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    I feel that once again I must restate my ban on posting copies or links to information subject to copyright breaches on Lostbombers.

    Ross

  3. #3
    Doug Cuthbertson Guest

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    Ross,
    Thank you for your stance against the lostbombers website. That site is the most flagrant example of plagerism I have ever seen. It is virtually a word for word copy of Bill Chorley's
    BCL and, as I helped Bill with the Lancasters in that series, I also feel aggrieved.
    Well done.
    Doug.

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    Default Apologies

    I see your point. I didn't appreciate that the information on Lostbombers was copied from other peoples efforts.

    I won't do it again

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    Hi,

    Lost without trace usually means that Bill Chorley failed to find any clues to the reason for loss from sources other than the squadron ORB.

    Since publication of the first volume of Bomber Command Losses he has continued to update loss details in the Addendum of subsequent volumes but in this case there is no additional data.

    No d/f fixes were supplied to the aircraft so no last reported position is recorded in the ORBs of the d/f stations.

    No claim of aircraft/flak or shipping matches the area so again no clue as to the reson for the loss.

    With no real loss evidence it could be a case of pilot error/equipment failure while close to the sea for the mine drop causing a sudden crash or any one of a number of faults that could combine to cause the loss of an aircraft flying in wartime conditions.

    Although not much more can be gleaned on the actual crash you can record a considerable amount on the crews previous operational experience with No.83 Sqn through the ORB. Officer careers are the easiest to trace before posting to the squadron with NCO aircrew a tough second. You might strike lucky with this Sgt crew and have a note in the 83 Sqn ORB as to were they were posted in from.

    Regards
    Ross

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    Default Still interested

    I'm still keen to find what I can about the loss of Hampden X2990 of 83 Squadron.

    From the CWGC site the crew were:

    Name: LOVELUCK, JAMES GWYN Initials: J G Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sergeant Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Unit Text: 83 Sqdn. Date of Death: 26/10/1940 Service No: 566553 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 16. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

    Name: YOUNG, KENNETH ERNEST Initials: K E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sergeant Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Unit Text: 83 Sqdn. Age: 20 Date of Death: 26/10/1940 Service No: 751187 Additional information: Son of Albert Walter and Maud Young, of Dalston, London. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 21. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

    Name: DALL, JAMES MITCHELL Initials: J M Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sergeant Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Unit Text: 83 Sqdn. Age: 22 Date of Death: 26/10/1940 Service No: 749342 Additional information: Son of Alexander and Jessie Dall, of Kirkcaldy, Fife. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 13. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

    Name: MIDDLETON, GEORGE LESLIE Initials: G L Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sergeant Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Unit Text: 83 Sqdn. Age: 27 Date of Death: 26/10/1940 Service No: 521578 Additional information: Son of George Edward Middleton, and of Gertrude Middleton, of Benwell, Northumberland. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 17. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

    I found this information about Sgt Loveluck on his old Bridgend School site.
    It mentions nightfighter action, do you know if that is correct ?

    "Sergeant Gwyn Loveluck of 83 Squadron RAF died on the 26th October 1940. He was the pilot of a Hampden bomber which was on a mission to mine the Gironde river estuary in recently occupied France. The bomber was shot down by a night fighter near Liege, and no trace ever found. Gwyn was a pre-war airman who had left school to join the RAF technical college, and is remembered as returning with a much-envied M.G. sport car. One contemporary described him as being ‘a good steady chap to be with’ who joined in every activity. Gwyn’s memorial is at Runnymead (Panel 16)"


    My interest is that Kenneth Ernest Young was the brother of my mothers best friend

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    I have had a look in the squadron history "83 Squadron 1917 - 1969" by Low and Harper

    26/10/40
    Hampden X2900 OL-Z
    Sgt JG Loveluck
    Sgt KE Young
    Sgt JM Dall
    Sgt GL Middleton
    All killed
    All on Runnymede Memorial and on the Five Group Roll of Honour in the Airman's Chapel at Lincoln Cathedral
    Three aircraft on mining operation Gironde River

    The only other reference in that book I can find is that Sgt Loveluck was flying as navigator on 25th July to the Dortmund Emns Canal. 8 aircrat flew that night.
    P/O Mills
    Sgt Loveluck
    Sgt Groves
    Sgt Houghton
    Take off 21.25 Landing 02.55
    Diversion activity bombs dropped on Buer.


    As it was common practice for a new pilot to fly a few trips as Navigator before getting his own aircraft, it is probable that Loveluck appeared on the squadron just prior to 25th July.

    As Ross said it is worth checking the 83 ORB for crew movements. I do not have the ORB for this period but in late 1941 each month the movement of both officers and NCO's was listed. At that time many of the crew had previously been at 16 OTU Upper Heyford so that may be worth a search too.

    The "Hampden File" by Harry Moyle gives no new info.

    It may be worth searching the Halton Apprentices route too
    If your mother's best friend is still with us she could apply for a copy of his service record. These are currently held at RAF Cranwell. There may be a charge for this.

    Happy Hunting
    James

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    I believe it was common practice in the RAF in 1939 and early 1940 to employ surplus pilots as air observers (read navigator - air bomber) in such aircraft as Hampdens because of a severe shortage of dedicated air observers in the early part of this period, but would have thought that this would have ceased by July 1940. Nevertheless, a sortie or two in this position for new pilots would have been a good idea before proceeding as pilot with your own crew. The observer shortage was because of the pre-war policy that dedicated observers were not required, as pilots could (and were) trained to undertake these duties. In large flying boats in particular during the 1920s and 1930s, up to three pilots would be carried as crew members on normal operations, one being tasked with undertaking the navigation.
    David D

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    according to Tony Wood's Combat Claims & Casualties Lists


    Night Phase: 27-28. October 1940
    Supplemental and/or Duplicated Claims from OKLs & Lists:
    28.10.40 Ltn. Völker: 1 2./NJG 2 Hampden Scampton 00.30 Reference: W. Bock f. 204

    Could this be our downed Hampden ? It's a day late though by my reckoning

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