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Thread: Was the Form 1180 ever obtained ?

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    Default Was the Form 1180 ever obtained ?

    Hello,

    With reguard to the loss of this trainee airman in the USA.

    http://www.rafcommands.com/archive/15051.php

    Was the Form 1180 ever obtained and if so did it reveal the aircraft serial number ?

    If so I would like to know the number :)

    many thanks
    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 5th September 2015 at 21:34.

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    I have a record of this loss and it would have been taken from an 1180 held at the RAF Museum. However, as we are going back to 2003 when I looked, I can give you no formal details. My record shows a number 64, which is probably a fleet number but it gives me no details of the formal serial.

    Colin Cummings

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    Alex,
    Unusually there appears to be two F.1180 cards for this accident, the second one on the microfilm appears to predate the first.
    1)
    10.8.45
    3 B.F.T.S.
    AT-6
    No: 64. [there is also an AAF serial no. shown but this is an engine no.]
    No.2 Practice Field, Miami.
    Crew: 2 Killed.
    Pilot: Weaver J.D. ACKR 38471997 [presumably the civilian Instructor] Hours on type: 1599.
    2nd Pilot: Mitchell AC.2 1818163.
    1050 Hours
    Aircraft shortly after *** [undecipherable] on gunnery training flight.
    C.O. Court of Inquiry.

    2)
    10.8.45.
    3 B.F.T.S.
    Harvard
    No: 41/16144.
    No.2 Field approx 4 Mls N of Miami.
    Crew: 1 Killed.
    Pilot. Mitchell D.M. 1818163
    Nothing Known
    Awaiting 765(c).

    There are USAAF equivelants to the RAF Forms 78 and F.1180.
    The AAF Aircraft record card for AT-6A 41-16144 shows it delivered to the Army Air Forces Advanced Flying School at Kelly Field, Texas and surviving three accidents there.
    Reassigned to another Advanced school at Mission, Texas in March 1942.
    Reassigned on 17 November 1942 to Miami (School) Tulsa, Okla.
    This is shorthand for No.3 B.F.T.S., whose civilian contractor was the Spartan School of Aeronautics, Tulsa, OK.
    During November 1942 the Vultee BT-13A (basic trainers) were retired from all the Btirish Flying Training Schools and these were replaced by additional AT-6As. AT-6A, 41-16144 is obviously one of those replacements.
    In common with all the AAF IARC the details shown after November 1942 and very brief and in an alpha-numenric code. The final entry reads:

    MIAMI OKTC 2556BASUTLR RC SURVEY AT6A 41 16144 816 8452.

    2556 Base Air Squadron is the AAF Base Unit to which the aircraft at #3 BFTS were assigned
    "RC SURVEY" - Recommended Survey - usually means the aircraft has been involved in a serious accident.
    "816" - 16 August 1945, the date on which this recommendation was authorised.
    "8452" - AAF station code for Miami, Oklahoma.

    The AAF Form 14s are a detailed account of each USAAF aircraft accident and investigation. Unfortunately very few B.F.T.S. accidents are included.

    Incidentally, if anyone finds the RAF Form 1180s for the 1944 PT and AT accidents at the BFTS, I would be interested to hear. In most of years the AT-6 accidents, for example, are filed amongst those of the RAF Harvards, but I have found none for 1944.
    Tony Broadhurst

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    Hello,
    Thanks to you ALL,
    This morning I searched through Cummings "The Price of Peace".
    On page 383 there is the report of the 10 Aug 45 accident of Harvard FT183, and on page 384 the report of the fatal accident on 10 Aug 45 of weaver and Mitchell's AT6 "64".
    Then if you go to the index page 650, it notes Harvard IIB FT183 - 10 Aug 45 and then Harvard AT6 - 16144. Great :)

    I then went to AB's "The Harvard File" and page 13 gives RAF serials matched to construction numbers.
    88.16143 to 88.16152 were matched to RAF serials EZ299 - EZ308. fine :)

    However EZ297 to EZ301(5a/c) were delivered direct to the RNZAF to become NZ1080 through to NZ1084. :(

    So went then to the USAAF serial numbers webpages of Joe Baugher and in one section he has EZ297/298 to NZ as 1080/1081 but later on has 42-84362/84371 as c/n's 88.16143/16152(10) to RAF as EZ299/308. :) So match 42-84362/42-84364 (EZ299/EZ301) to NZ as NZ1082/NZ1084. :)

    So 42-84363/EZ300/NZ1083 - 88.16144 was not the AT6 we seek. However she is still with us I read that she is presently stored at Ohakea as reserve aircraft for RNZAF Historic Flight.

    So only other it could be was US serial number 41-16144 c/n 78.6522. As you also have it.
    So that leaves us to accept that the "64" must have been the aircraft "side number" either on the fuselage sides (and/or tail ?).
    The serial number would have been on the a/c tail and would have followed the norm and read as "116144"

    Excelent - the serial number now known - 41-16144 :)

    As an aside to this search I came accross the fact that Mitchell is one of 15 RAF men at rest at the local Cemetery. It is also worth the mention that beside them also at rest now is the Lady who until her passing cared for their graves and had requested to be laid to rest beside them. Her wish was carried out.
    http://www.visitmiamiok.com/group-tours/british-flyers/

    At least one earlier event for 41-16144 can be seen here -
    http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/s...144&Submit4=Go

    While two are noted in this website Accident-Report.com -

    411224 AT-6A 41-16144 FREDERICKSBURG 1.5 MI N, TX
    450721 AT-6A 41-16144 COMMERCE 8 MI NW, OK

    Thanks again for your help
    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 6th September 2015 at 14:45.

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    So only other it could be was US serial number 41-16144 c/n 78.6522. As you also have it.
    So that leaves us to accept that the "64" must have been the aircraft "side number" either on the fuselage sides (and/or tail ?).
    The serial number would have been on the a/c tail and would have followed the norm and read as "116144"


    Alex,
    Glad to have been able to help.
    Having spent a couple hours at the local fly-in and returned to find your reply I thought it might be appropriate to dig out my 3 BFTS photos to provide an example of the "side numbers".

    I find I have a very fine photograph of AT-6A "W64", 41-16144. I am not sure how to post images on this forum but if you would like a copy of the photo or of the USAAF aircraft record card drop me a pm.

    Tony

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    Hello Tony,

    Never expected that , almost a miracle .

    contact address in a PM to you

    Many thanks,
    Alex

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