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Thread: Hanau 6/7 Jan 1945

  1. #11
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    [QUOTE=dennis_burke;38053]Not everyone is a 900+ posting veteran.QUOTE]

    Dennis,

    Sorry, but I don't see the relevance of this statement.

    Errol

  2. #12
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    We both are Errol, 900+ postings, just implying no need to jump down the throat of new visitors!
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  3. #13
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    From page 212 of Oliver Clutton - Brock's "Footprints on the Sands of Time":

    Mystery surrounds the fate of Flight Sergeant T.W. Richards RAF, shot down on 6/7 January 1945 (Hanau). Evidence was sketchy, though one eye-witness saw a man parachuting down near the Hessen Homburg Kaserne (barracks) at Hanau, and being shot at by a soldier from the barracks. Leutnant Oswald Schnautz is known to have taken an airman into the nearby woods and murdered him. Investigating the matter after the war the Air Ministry decided that the victim was possibly from:

    'Halifax 811 of which 3 were killed and 3 were POW. Only one airman from all the aircraft lost on this raid has never been seen since he baled out uninjured. His particulars are 1339173 F/S FW RICHARDSON [sic]. One of the POW (F/S Wilcox) was attacked by hostile villagers when he baled out. The POW on being questioned after their repatriation all stated that no trace of F/S RICHARDSON has ever been found'

    Sgt Norman Wilcock RAF (not Wilcox as above), MZ811's mid-upper gunner, was captured on landing at JŁgesheim by a civilian, Heinz Mark, who repeatedly hit him in the face. As a result of this brutal assault Wilcock lost five front teeth. Three other Germans, including Mark's father, having heard that between 2,000 and 3,000 civilians had lost thir lives in the bombing of Hanau, then proceeded to kick the living daylights out of him for the best part of an hour.

    In the footnote for this paragraph the source is given as WO 309/1187 so perhaps more information awaits at Kew?

    Regards,

    Dave

  4. #14
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    Wow guys, cheers for the info. I think Iím going to be busy on Google-Earth for a while. Iím amazed at the amount of information, thanks again everyone. I just wish Iíd contacted this forum two years earlier, whilst my grandfather (Leslieís brother) was still with us.
    NM

  5. #15
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    Thanks again to Everyone who responded to my earlier posting.

    I had another good look at Rowlandís A705 file (found by AlanW - Thanks) and something doesnít add up. Rowland says he parachuted into trees near the wreckage of his aircraft. He avoided the searchers and walked through the forest towards Trier (which is West of Hanau) and was arrested the next day in Offenbach.

    I had a look on the map and Offenbach is West of the river Main. Grossauheim (where Jelley and Whybrow were found) is East of the river Main.

    You guys are probably the best people to ask. Is it possible, for the tail of Lancaster PB228 to come down East of the river, and the front fuselage to come down west of the river? (I hope this is not a dumb question) Have there been any other cases where a crew have crashed in different locations?

    Thanks again everyone for all the excellent information and leads so far.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_m View Post
    However Iím still trying to find out about the other grave. The Germans had marked the grave as Canadians, maybe they were the crew of RCAF Lancaster KB821 flown by BM Adilman J6390.
    I think, it is quite able that these are the bodies from F/Lt Adilman, F/Lt James and F/O Staves from the Lancaster KB821

  7. #17
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    Default Question:

    Was F/Lt J. Krefter also a crew member from the Halifax NR195 ?

  8. #18
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    Captain M, I have a Lancaster crash site near my home here in Germany, which had the tail shot off. The tail came down over one kilometer from the nose. Alas, no survivors. It all depends on the altitude during seperation and if the nose went down in a glide or steep (near vertical) decent. Danny

  9. #19
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    Yes Willy, JJ Krefter was the pilot.
    Since my last posting I've also found out that BM Adilman and 3 off his crew were buried in Langendiebach.
    Cheers
    NM

  10. #20
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    Captain_M, the distance between bits of wreckage is a useful indication to a crash investigator of when and how the aircraft broke up. If it broke up in flight, at an altitude of 20,000 feet or more, it is quite possible that large chunks of wreckage could land miles apart, spread in random directions. If it broke up on impact, you would expect the wreckage to be relatively close together, and spread along a straight line that tells you the direction of travel at impact.

    I would not expect occupants to usually survive a crash landing in large chunks that came apart at altitude, but given the number of aircraft crashes in the War it could have happened a few times. More likely, crew might bail out of different chunks after the breakup, and could therefore land some distance apart.

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