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Thread: Fate of Lysander L4691

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    Default Fate of Lysander L4691

    On Gary Fowkes' RAF Liberators website there is an uncaptioned photo of an aircraft which has lost its port wing in flight...I think. It's definitely a Lysander. On the underside of the wing one can clearly see the serial L4691...and this, I know, matches up to a Lysander Mk.I serial. The camouflage looks like green and earth.

    Can anyone tell me more about this photo and the fate of L4691?

    The photo is found at:

    http://rafb24.com/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&gid=63

    Thanks,

    Matt

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    Looks like a model. Lysander L4691 is listed in the Air-Britain book ROYAL AIR FORCE AIRCRAFT L1000-N9999 (Halley) as seeing service with 16 Squadron, SD Flight Boscombe Down, 4 AGS, 2 AGS and in July 1943 becoming a ground instructional airframe.
    Ian Macdonald

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    Default

    Can't imaging the wing would just come away from the joint, which must have very tough also the bracing struts, I'd doubt they would stay at that angle, their joints must be moveable, tho rigid when all braced together. Also the wing joint is inside the galzing so would I expect be damaged.

    See this photo of Lysander with skin missing, the landing gear leg would be damaged by a departing wing I'd surmise.

    http://www.warplane.com/images/Lysander%20photo%203_lrg.jpg

    This also appears to show the wing bracing strut is braced to the actual leg inside the leg fairings,
    http://www.warplane.com/images/Lysander%20photo%204_lrg.jpg

    the strut coming away from the leg would not look like it would keep on all the fairings.

    http://www.warplane.com/images/Lysander%20photo%202_lrg.jpg

    http://www.cybermodeler.net/aircraft/lysander/images/nasm_lysander_07.jpg

    http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/5/2/0915250.jpg

    Unless a lot of bolts all failed together the wing coming off woudl have to cause damage to the surrounding fairings and structure,

    lots of large resolution photos on Google image search out there.

    only my guessing.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Thanks for the history of L4691, Ian. And Dennis, you make a good case. Sure looks like a suspect photo, though there's a chance that there's nothing deceptive about its origins or purpose. It's just a photo, uncaptioned, found by the grandson of a veteran.

    Who knows, maybe it was meant to be a photo of an unfinished model, or as an amateur recreation of an incident (not L4691), kind of like how, in my teens, I used to photograph mock-dogfights using plastic model aircraft hanging from my bedroom ceiling. The grandson apparently has other photos not yet posted, so hopefully there will be another Lizzie photo or two.

    Cheers,

    Matt

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    Default Faked Photo

    G'day Chaps

    I ran the pic through photo shop and did a number of things to it which leads me to believe the it is faked. As well, the serial number on the bottom of the port wing looks like it has been superimposed. Just my two cents worth.

    Cheers...Chris

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    Hey guys, just thought I'd clear things up a tad.
    Not sure why everyone jumps to the conclusion that weird photos are fakes but I guess paranoia rules these days, either that or they really are out to get me :D
    Anyway, this photo is part of a bunch of photos that have been supplied to the site from a reliable source. They are scans of the original photos, while I'm sure that you could recreate this scene in Photoshop, I'd just like to point out that photoshop wasn't available in the 1940's ;)
    So lets forget about it being a fake for a while and see if anyone can shed any light on a weird but non faked photo ;)
    Hello by the way Matt, and hello to everyone else.
    Gary

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    hello Gary,

    I remember a famous series of air combat pictures of WW1, sold in the 20es. They were fakes, made with models not real planes, and lots of people were abused at that time.

    I've seen the picture as well, and to me it really looks like a model, with a broken wing, thrown away and pictured "in flight".

    If you add the problem with the serial number to the "look" of the shot, it really makes you wonder.

    Joss

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    Hey Joss and all.
    I agree it does seem weird and yes I'm aware that photos were faked even further back but given the source of these photos I have to investigate all possibilities and not just rule it out as fake just because it looks weird. I'd be interested to know more about the record card.
    At the end of the day it's not a Liberator so it might as well be a UFO, but I like to be thorough.

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    Hi,
    I am the person who posted the photo and I received it as one of about 70 photos belonging to the grandfather of a member of 215 Squadron. The photos consist of airmen, aircraft and locations in India and Burma in 1944/45 and all look genuine to me. If the photo is of a model maybe it was given to the grandfather at about the same time.
    I still have an open mind on the photo and am interested in any responses.

    cheers

    Brian

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    Default Wingless Lizzie

    I agree with the others, particularly Dennis. It looks too neat to be an actual wing failure in flight: no apparent damage to the cockpit glazing, no dangly bits at the wing end, strut still neatly shaped, and no visible damage to the undercarriage leg fairings. Surely an in-flight structural failure of that proportion would involve significant breaking, tearing and twisting of various bits as the a/c came apart?

    And if L4691 ended up as a ground instructional airframe, there wouldn't have been much left if it had been in an earlier in-flight incident like this one!

    My two-penny-worth anyway.

    Ian


    ps Gary - No 223 Sqn pics on your website? They flew B24's from Norfolk in the RCM role with 100 Gp in 1944/45. Or have I missed the point and you're not covering UK-based Sqn's? (Sorry, I didn't have a thorough-enough look at the site to work out its scope. Is it for Mid-East or Far East-based Sqn's only?)
    Last edited by ianh; 21st November 2009 at 22:08.

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