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Thread: Squadron 7 Stirling Bombers - Can you help?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    1

    Default Squadron 7 LEJ Davenport

    Hi Ian & All
    My father's usual Stirling through May, June and the first week of July 1941 was MG-D - 'D' for Donald. He flew with F/Lt Gerry 'Blackie' Blacklock, 'Ash' Ashton, 'Jock' Graham, 'Paddy' Kenny, Wilbur Crebbins as 2nd pilot. My Dad was harry 'Ginger' Rossiter.

    STIRLING WINGS, THE SHORT STIRLING GOES TO WAR by Jonathan Falconer wrote this about N6022 crash:

    ‘On the night of the 28th I went to Brest, Bremen and Cologne (twice), and a new Stirling for Gerry Blacklock and his crew N6022 was the new mount which quickly came to be regarded with considerable affection by all of the crew who took it on ten operations over the coming months, culminating with a trip to Magdeburg on 5/6 July. However, life for N6022 was destined to be brief: ‘borrowed’ from Gerry Blacklock by Dennis Witt on 15/16 July, the aircraft ran short of fuel returning from a raid on Hanover and was abandoned by its crew over East Anglia, who left the aircraft to crash at Newton Flotman, Norfolk.

    I have a photograph of 7 Squadron taken at Oakington 1941. Your grandfather is 2nd from the left in the 3rd row, my father is 4th.

    Small world.

    Ann

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Chelmsford Essex
    Posts
    24

    Default FC WILLIAMS 2nd Pilot lost on the 28th June 1941 - info needed

    Can anyone provide information on a Fred Williams a 2nd pilot in 7 Squadron RAF circa 1941 based at Oakington.

    He was shot down and posted MIA on the 28th June 1941 on a raid to Bremen, their Stirling was shot down by an ME 109 over the Channel, no bodies / reckage were ever found. I was later found that they had all died.

    I this kill confirmed in the Nachtjagd war diaries??

    Any info relating to this individual will be greatly received.

    Email me on ian_davenport@hotmail.com

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Woking, Surrey
    Posts
    459

    Default

    Peter,

    I would be interested in this photo especially if it shows any of the three crews involved in the action on 1st July 1941.

    As an aside, l have a copy of a letter written by my Father's wireless operator/air gunner, Robert McDonald to Mrs Nicholls regarding the death of her son on 1st July 1941, written from Stalag Luft 3 following a chance meeting with a member of 7 Squadron. She could not understand the sacrifice her son had made in trying to rescue another crew, very difficult to come to terms with in your own grief.

    Regards,

    Nick

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1

    Default Reply

    Hi Ian,

    My name is Iain Walker writing from New York. I believe that my grandfather, Denis Lloyd knew your Grandfather. My mother told me that they had met in Oakington and ended up as POW'S together in Germany at some point. Denis was shot down and a POW for approximately 4 years. He was the only survivor from his Sterling and he passed away in 2006 at age 92.

    I am new to this forum and noticed one individual you referenced your Grandfather would have known was K.O Blunden. Ken Blunden was the pilot of Denis' Sterling. My mother also told me that she met your Grandfather in approximately 1971 when he and Denis met after the war.

    Denis put together the most amazing war diary which I possess and I also have his flight log. These items are filled with amazing photographs, letters, and documents and I will start taking a look again soon to see if there is any reference to your Grandfather or other items you might be interested int.

    Take care,

    Iain Walker

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Chelmsford Essex
    Posts
    24

    Default Leslie E J Davenport and Denis A Lloyd

    Ian,

    Thanks for your reply yes my dad confirmed that both Denis and his wife met my Grandfather and his wife after the war they came to stay with my grandfather in Essex in 1971, my dad met Denis and his wife.

    What a stroke of luck you messaged me, I have sent you a couple of emails to you and provided you my contact details.

    I will be very interested if you have in your possession any POW photos or Squadron 7 photos of the two of them and whether you have any other documents I might be interested in.

    Kind regards

    Ian Davenport

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Staffordshire
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    1

    Default 7 Squadron WW2 A. Bratt

    Hi ,I was searching for information about 7 Squadron on the internet which brought me here. I wondered if anyone could help with any records of Arthur Bratt who joined the Squadron in 1941 and left in 1946.

    regards,Jax

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    374

    Default "Annual Filming" in WW2

    Quote Originally Posted by Davenport7 View Post
    Guys,

    ....

    *Also on my grandfathers Service record there are stamps saying 'ANNUAL FILMING', what is this??

    Ian
    Hello Ian

    I noticed several postings on this Post recently asking what the term "Annual Filming" meant.

    I too and I expect many others have seen the reference to "Annual Filming" with a date on Form 543 sent out, when paying for the RAF Airman's Service record.

    When I asked the lady at Innsworth where the rest of the file was, she stated that the two sides of a pink Card was all the paperwork that they held there.

    I have raised this point with the MoD and ICO because:-

    1) Online in Parliamentary Hansard 20 Oct 2004: Column 264WH recording a House of Commons Debate in 2004 referring to the closure of the "Military Records Office" at Hayes and its transfer to TNT Archives Swadlincote it was claimed during Parliament that "The records office holds the personal and personnel files of every British sailor, soldier, airman and" ...

    Scrolling down it also referred to the separating of the Aircraft Board of Inquiry Reports from the main file.

    In protracted correspondence and at a FOI Appeal the ICO and Joinder Party to the Appeal stated that this statement made in the House was not the case, implying that the MPs and the MP for Hayes had been ill-advised by the staff who actually worked at the Hayes Records Office.

    2) However, the MOD Advisory Panel on Departmental Records report released at 30 years old found in the TNA in December 2010, stated that:-
    some personnel areas had made considerable progress in committing their current personal records to a Machine Readable (computer, microfilm, micro-fiche) form, often at a local level on an 'administrative use' basis.

    all Service personnel records consigned to archives would be held for a period of 85 years from the date of entry and consideration of further records selected for permanent preservation would not be due until 1999.

    Conclusion
    The records would have been filmed as a back-up at the time of the date stamp. Another country NZ who hold military records of their nationals, openly state that they were filmed a long time ago and that they will endeavour to print off the very best copies when supplying copies.

    However, the claim here is that the films are no longer held by the MoD and would require special storage due to combustion. Although films were held at Hayes according to an Article written by a former Record Manager of PRO staff who recalled his time at Hayes.

    I have heard that the sheer volume of records held by various Departments is massive, with one Department expressing difficulty in managing their Archive due to the volume of records held. It is known that various records are withheld by Departments or those acting as Storage for them. I do not think according to what is written and recorded in some cases, that the TNA want them, or can handle the volume of records.

    Can you imagine simply indexing the files, then finding and copying a whole file with many pages, or printing off many pages from a film and the costs to the Department involved?

    My personal feeling is that it seems it would be impossible to either find records, or would simply cost too much to release them to requesters.

    One point of the Advisory Panel just over 30 years ago, seemed to be that until some method of dealing with files could be found, then we shall leave it until the next review.

    I am not sticking up for the MoD as to whether the files really survive or not. However, could you imagine first Reviewing every file to remove any piece that you wanted to withhold putting that on a separate file, then scanning every single file of every Sailor, Soldier and Airman?

    I think that government departments feel it best to be rather vague on what is held, simply due to cost. With the cost of staff wages and staff overheads, office costs, pensions, holidays and sickness, it is not many hours searching before you are up to the £600 FOI limit.

    If they have placed documents with a Storage facility outside the control of their direct supervisory staff, then in effect they no longer hold the document being requested anyway, or in a storage facility where there is no database, then the item cannot be found and would not appear on any search anyway.

    Regarding the old films, they do not feel they would hold them due to the fire risk. Quite what happened to the old films mentioned in an article written around the time of the closure of Hayes, the films which had to be specially stored at Hayes is not now known.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 4th December 2012 at 12:45. Reason: ref to NZ files should read "were filmed a long time ago"

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Mount Dora, Fl USA
    Posts
    1

    Default

    This is the first time on this board, so I hope I am responding to Ian Davenport, my Dad Roy Ellis-Brown was a pilot with 7 squadron would you have information on the raids 1941-1942 he was on? I would very much appreciate your help, I have some data but his log book was lost. Thanks

    Sheridan Ellis-Brown

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