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Thread: !!!Lancaster JB221 - No 97 Sqdn - Crash on 25./26. November 1943!!!

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    Default !!!Lancaster JB221 - 97.Sqdn - Crash on 25./26. November 1943!!!

    Hello,

    my name is Felix and I'm from Germany.Last summer I discovered the crashplace of the Lancaster JB221 (X1D OF-W) of the 97.Squadron.Crashed on 25./26. November 1943 at Brandau (Odenwald) NE of Bensheim.Shot down by Eckhardt Wilhelm von Bonin of II./NJG 1.

    ATTENTION:The mortal remains of at least 4 crew members are still in the ground.
    DON'T BE AFRAID,THE AUTHORITIES ARE INFORMED and a salvage will be in spring.
    Here are the names of the lost crew members:

    Name Serial No. Nationality

    F/Lt Carlos Manuel Brown J/20377 Canada
    P/O George Smith 53583 UK
    P/O Thomas Watson 161042 UK
    Sgt. Bernard Frederick Tutt 1384140 UK


    Now I try to find out the adresses of the relatives for informing them.I think it will be a relief for all of them if they have after 65 years certainty where their brothes/fathers rest.
    It was possible to get in contact with the brother and son of Bernard Frederick Tutt.They are still informed.
    Please help if you know one of the other crew members & their relatives or if you can make a contact to them in an other way.It's very important!


    Have a look to the databases:


    http://www.crashplace.de/output.php

    http://www.firebynight.co.uk/Crew%20Brown.html


    With many regards

    Felix
    Last edited by JB221; 10th January 2010 at 16:53.

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    Hello Felix,

    From Commonwealth War Graves Commission site:

    Brown was an American serving in the RCAF and a Croix de Guerre winner. Son of Wilbur Charles and Rita Rodriguez Brown. Native of U.S.A.

    You could send to Ottawa for his file but it will take many months.
    David

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    Hello dfuller52,

    I know this extract of the CWGC site. But the problem is, that there are contradictional datas about Brown.All sources I own tell that he was Canadian. Only the fire by night site and the CWGC site say that he was an American.When I talked to the son of B.F. Tutt, he told me that there were no Americans, only Canadians in the crew of his father.
    I think I will send a letter to Ottawa, perhaps it will help.

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    Hello Felix,

    we have been asked not to place details of living relatives on this site but I'm sure someone will send you PM's or emails with guides or assistances.

    One simple method is to find the name of their home town where CWGC says they come from and write a letter to the newspaper for that town or area.

    From looking at the 1930 US census I would guess that Brown then lived in Hillsborough, Florida, parents Wilber and Rita matching up. In 1920 the family were in New York. He had a brother and a sister in 1920.

    Watson is from Hawes, Yorkshire, some of the board members should be able to help you with that.

    Tutt's wife at least is named coming from Tenterden, Kent. That might not be where his parents were from. He was born in a Kent district and had perhaps one younger brother who died in 1912. That brother might have family.
    It also seems that Bernard and his wife had a child in 1942 so he might be still alive.

    I see there is no hometown details given for George Smith on CWGC, that name will be fairly common. Difficult to trace him.

    But the 'authorities' should be able to help you with all this.


    Since Carlos M Brown was a member of the Royal Canadian Air Force you must contact the the Canadian Archives and request from them his service records. The extracts will be free, the full service record will will incur a charge.

    The contact details for the Canadian Archives are here:

    http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-909.007-e.html

    You must check out the link above as it contains their procedures. It may take a few months for the records but worth the wait usually.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Hello Dennis,


    your right Tutt's son is still alive and also a brother. Thanks for the other detailed information I think this will help me.

    With many regards


    Felix

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    Ah, I didn;t see that bit of you r message, that saves me a lot of typing!!

    Carlos Brown's death notice in the Globe and Mail newspaper, 1944/01/10 lists:

    BROWN, Carlos Manuel, FL. Miss Eileen Brown (sister), New York City

    Have you gone to the Australian archives and gottena copy of F/Sgt Sindens casualty file, it mght contain more useful data for you.

    Go to http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
    Click on "Search now as a guest "
    In the new window search for Sindens service number 421133 and you can for a small fee, well worth it, order for both his service file and casualty file to be scanned and palced on the website.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Death records in Florida include

    in 1940

    Wilber C Brown Jr

    in 1941

    Wilber C Brown Sr?

    Both listed as in the Hillsborough county.
    I wonder if something tragic occured to the family prior to Carlos' death. It would also explain his sister being his next of kin in the newspaper listing.

    The 1910 census give his siblings names as Wilbur C and Eileen M Brown.

    The family home location in new York in the 1910 and 1920 census is

    Port Chester, Westchester, New York
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Felix,

    see Carlos Manuel Brown

    http://www.wwiimemorial.com/registry/search/pframe.asp?HonoreeID=2245874&popcount=3&tcount=4

    Mark

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    Felix
    This is the website for Port Chester NY newspaper & contact page. Some of Brown's relatives may still live there ?

    http://pc.westmorenews.com/send_email.php

    There are 34 Browns in the US white pages phone /address directory !! [put US white pages into google]

    For Watson in Hawes go to http://www.bt.com/ then the phone book- residential ,then Watson in name & Hawes in town.There are 5 pages of Watsons but some are in the NE of Yorkshire so try the Watsons in Leyburn or Middleham .

    Otherwise for Watson try letters to the Yorkshire newspapers or phone about the story of the plane & finding relatives ----[emails to reporters are rarely answered] but ,from my experience, the northern UK local newspapers are good at reporting this sort of search story .

    http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/

    Darlington & Stockton Times Newspapers & Magazines
    Tel: 01748 825281| 3, King St, Richmond, North Yorkshire DL10 4HP

    Northern Echo Newspapers & Magazines
    Tel: 01748 850407| 3, King St, Richmond, North Yorkshire DL10 4HP

    Presumably there is a system for informing Runnymede Airforce Memorial that the bodies of these crewmen have been found & identified & are not longer missing ?

    Regards
    Anne

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    Felix,

    I would leave the matter of casualty notification with the correct authorities. In the case of RAF aircrew, this would fall to the Joint Casualty and Compassionate Centre at Innsworth, who would need to be informed via the British Embassy in Berlin. There are proper and respectful ways of notifying relatives of the discovery of their dead kin and a phone call from Germany probably is not one of them. The military are very well equipped and used to dealing with such matters.

    As a senior serving Military Policeman, currently based in Germany, I would also respectfully request that fellow Forumites bear this in mind when offering to assist Felix and his well meaning colleagues.

    Thanks in advance

    Jonny
    In fond memory of Corporal James Oakland AGC (RMP), killed in action in Afghanistan on 22 October 2009. Exemplo Ducemus.

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