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Thread: Any idea of a range of serial numbers for an LAC in August 1938?

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    Default Any idea of a range of serial numbers for an LAC in August 1938?

    All

    I know there are some service number crunchers on this web site

    I am trying to ID an LAC Miller on 29 Sqn in August 1938 At Duxford


    He flew as a gunner. And he is NOT one of the 3 Miller in MoBoB


    I was wondering if an educated guess on a possible service number could be gauged by his rank in 1938 Assuming he joined up at 16 or 18


    So a stab at air 78 millers could be make

    A colleague has kindly looked at 29 Sqn ORB and he is not mentioned





    Paul

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    Paul, Hello,

    I will admit to being one of those who has dabbled – inter alia - in RAF Service Number numerology in the hope divining some useful information for the researchers, but the problem – as you state it – is immense. I don’t think it is possible to approach it from that end.

    Somebody, with a more formal/thorough education in statistics, may know of a way round this one! But the only thing I can think of is to get all the ‘Millers’ from AIR 78/110 (and there are a prodigious lot of them – and this, in itself, would be an enormous problem!!) and exclude those that definitely don’t fit.

    On the other hand, one could have a stab in the dark!
    There are 234 assorted RAF, WW2, ‘Miller’s’ in CWGC. One of ‘em is:-
    550034 Sgt Francis Paul Miller of 29 Sqn died, aged 23, on 21 Nov 1941. 550000-558000 is the Boy Entrant’s Block. He would have been born in 1918. His age would fit in the Brats! His number doesn’t come up on the LG.

    There is only the very faintest of possibilities that this might be yr bloke – but who knows?
    If it is, then I shall need to go and lie down in a dark, cool, room, for several hours while the excitement abates!!

    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Last edited by Resmoroh; 16th February 2019 at 16:55. Reason: QSD
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Peter

    Thanks for your analysis that’s at least 1 guy I need to eliminate or otherwise

    Out of interest does anyone know iall prewar groundcrew who volunteered for gunner/obs duties ex Brats?

    Or could say a clerk or cook volunteer as well ?

    Thanks

    Paul

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    Paul - most pre-war gunners were armourer by ground trade but any ground trade could volunteer - it depended on the local OC if they were accepted for the duty.

    Also the Halton brats were 56XXXX series service numbers allocated to Aircraft Apprentice - different entry to Boy Entrants - different conditions of service.

    335XXXX from 1919 to Aug 1934.

    Ross
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 16th February 2019 at 18:21.
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    Ross

    Thanks for expanation

    This is the guy I am trying to iD

    http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/Brett.htm


    BTW

    FRANCIS PAUL MILLER 550034

    Was killed in Beaufighter IF R2183 29 Sq Flew into high ground in bad visibility, Boxley Grange, Kent, 21.11.41.

    Sgt (Pilot) RALPH EDMOND WILLIAM NZ404010 also killed


    Paul

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    Just a thought, Paul, but it may be worthwhile accessing the local paper - The Bucks Free Press. There should be an archived copy in the High High Wycombe library; the email address is lib-hiw@buckscc.gov.uk .

    As an aside I'm intrigued by the spread of locations quoted at https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=68615. Miller landed at Saunderton, just southwest of Princes Risborough; the aircraft crashed at Speen 3 miles from Saunderton on a bearing of 116 degrees; Brett landed at Naphill, 2 miles from Speen on a bearing of 162 degrees (and less than 2 miles from the centre of High Wycombe). Based on the midnight chart for 3 August (assuming this was closest to the time of the crash) there appears to have been little cloud, and I estimate the 2000 ft wind was NE about 10 mph.

    If my estimate is correct one wonders why the crash site was roughly midway between the two touchdown locations (just thinking aloud).

    Probably a silly question - but any F1180?

    Brian
    Last edited by Lyffe; 16th February 2019 at 22:53.

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    In regard to Apprentices, after much searching, I found a database that is incomplete but nonetheless extremely helpful, and may assist with this query.

    See http://www.rafcaa.co.uk/entrynos.html

    Then go to the listings for the various entries (names and numbers): http://www.rafcaa.co.uk/

    There's a Miller who may fit, in the 31st entry.

    With the assistance of this site for Entries 15 onward, among many other sources, I've been able to establish the following list of entries from 1 to 40:

    Entry - Intake - Passed Out
    01 - Jan 22 - 17 Dec 24
    02 - 15 Sep 22 - 18 Aug 25
    03 - Jan 23 - 07 Jan 26
    04 - 11 Sep 23 - 29 Jul 26
    05 - Jan 24 - 11 Jan 27
    06 - The Apprentice schemes at Halton and Cranwell merged in 1925 & Halton entries were renumbered, with the 6th becoming the 12th.
    07 - -
    08 - -
    09 - -
    10 - Sep 24 - 28 Jul 27
    11 - 13 Jan 25 - 16 Dec 27
    12 - 29 Sep 25 - Jul 28
    13 - 15 Jan 26 - 18 Dec 28
    14 - 15 Sep 26 - Jul 29
    15 - Jan 27 - Jan 30
    16 - Sep 27 - 29 Jul 30
    17 - 10 Jan 28 - Dec 30
    18 - Sep 28 - Aug 31
    19 - Jan 29 - 17 Dec 31
    20 - Sep 29 - Jul 32
    21 - 13 Jan 30 - Dec 32
    22 - Sep 30 - Aug 33
    23 - Jan 31 - Dec 33
    24 - Sep 31 - Jul 34
    25 - Jan 32 - Dec 34
    26 - Sep 32 - Jul 35
    27 - Jan 33 - Dec 35
    28 - Sep 33 - 28 Jul 36
    29 - Jan 34 - Dec 36
    30 - Aug 34 - 27 Jul 37
    31 - Jan 35 - 21 Dec 37
    32 - Aug 35 - 28 Jul 38
    33 - Jan 36 - Dec 38
    34 - 26 Aug/8 Sep 36 - Aug 39
    35 - Jan-37 - Dec 39
    36 - Aug 37 - Jan 40 (Truncated)
    37 - Jan 38 - Apr 40 (Truncated)
    38 - Aug 38 - Oct 40 (Truncated)
    39 - Jan 39 - Jan 41 (Truncated)
    40 - Aug 39 - Sep 41 (Truncated)

    Happy for anyone to correct or update any of the above dates

    Hope this helps
    Steve

    PS. 'My' 41 Sqn apprentices were numbered 362XXX-366XXX for Intakes between 1922 and 1925 (Entries 2-12), and 560XXX-566XXX for Intakes between 1926 and 1934 (Entries 13-29)
    41 (F) Squadron RAF at War and Peace, April 1916-March 1946
    http://brew.clients.ch/41sqnraf.htm

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    Re Francis Paul Milller

    Martin Gleeson kindly looked up the ORB for me

    “No joy. He appears to have only recently transferred in to 29 Sqn. before his death. He is listed in the F.541 just once, a patrol on 17 November 1941. His pilot.........Guy Gibson ! It proves nothing either way. The flight he died on is not listed on the F.541 and so was non-operational, the F.540 records they crashed in fog 'in the afternoon'.”


    So unlikely to be him

    I have tried some local press but with no joy but I am now going to go down the

    Accident card route and I have also found recently there is a Thames Valley Police archive as well

    Kind regards Paul

    Ps Steve will check out your Miller as well !

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    Checked out local paper today Bucks Free Press covets Incident in a little more detail and has A photo of plane wreckage

    But not the full names of crew :-(

    Kind regards

    Paul

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    C'est la vie - but nice to know there was a report.

    Brian

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