Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: DS610 LancasterII ?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    99
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default DS610 LancasterII ?

    I have been sent a photo of this Lancaster and it's crew that may be of interest to others. The aircraft is mentioned on a Belgian website that google struggles to translate.

    The source was Sally, the niece of Ronald Oakes who is associated on thse boards with Lancaster DS720 and Operation Hanover. She would be interested to know if possible who any of the crew of DS ?610 shown in this photo are, as the link between this photo and her uncle is unclear.

    With thanks in anticipation.

    Howard

    http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Tjapaltjarri/MP20035-b.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    307
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello Howard,
    This is obviously speculative based on the assumption that the serial is DS610. I've looked at the photo using Paintshop Pro to see if with enhancements such as the sharpen tool, I can make out any clearer details of either the aircraft or crew members, but no luck.

    However, if it is DS610, then it's of 115 squadron (as was DS720, hence a link with Sally's uncle) based at either East Wretham (Nov.42 - Aug. 43), Little Snoring (Aug. 43 - Nov. 43) or Witchford (Nov. 43 onwards). I see that DS720 (KO-D) was lost on operations on 15 Jan. '44. DS610 later went to 1657 CU and was struck off charge on 22.5.47.

    If anyone has the ORBs for 115 squadron then perhaps a crew list might be achievable? I see the rear-gunner (?) appears to have a pull-through in his hands so he's been dutifully cleaning his guns.

    Regards
    Max

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Aubers, France
    Posts
    2,382
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default ORB of no. 115 Squadron

    hello,

    I have the ORB of 115 for May to July 1943, my interest being in the # Larson crew, lost in DS660 during the Aachen raid (13/14 July 1943). Will look at it and post any informations that could be interesting about DS610.

    Joss

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Aubers, France
    Posts
    2,382
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default no mention of DS610 in the period I have

    Hello again

    No luck in the Squadron ORB from May to July 1943. No mention of DS610. But this Lancaster served previously with No. 61 Squadron, according to Harry Holmes « Avro Lancaster – the definitive record ». I have the first edition, perhaps the revised one gives the dates of posting from 61 to 115 Squadron ?
    By the way, DS610 was scrapped on 22 may 1945 (not 1947) according to the same book.

    Joss

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    307
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi Joss,
    I'm sure Harry is right about the date, I'd trust his data every time!
    Max

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    1,765
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    If Sally's uncle was F/Sgt R.M. Oakes of 115sqdn kia 15/1/44, by comparing the photo with images from the Aukland War Memorial site, it's possible that the two airmen on the left are P/O C.K. Waldrom and P/O F.S. Blackwell, both of RNZAF.
    After enhancing the photo i am 99% sure that the serial is DS610.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Bristol UK
    Posts
    81
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    DS610 may have been with 115 sqn but probably not for very long. I have the logbook of P/O S R Garrard who joined 115 on Nov 4th 1942, he flew operations on Wellingtons up to 28.2.43. The first Lancaster II logged is DS605 on 15.2.43 “S/Ldr Fox, local flying”
    DS610 is first mentioned on 22.4.43, pilots “S/Ldr Chilton and F/Lt Farquharson, duty W/T operator, Rougham to base, landed at Mildenhall en route”. The April page is signed off by F/Lt Farquharson as O/C Con Flight.
    DS610 is next recorded on 31st May “ F/Lt Farquharson , duty W/T operator, to Stradishall”; the same day he flew in DS605 and DS623 both from Mildenhall.
    The page for May is signed off by S/Ldr Chilton as O/C 1678 Con Unit. These are the only entries for DS610.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    99
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Max,

    Thanks for your thoughts on this and the observation of the gun pull through. The photo would appear to have been a memento of some mates that Ronald Oakes met up with at some point in their training or conversion to the new Lancaster II's; there is the possibility that DS610 was amongst those transferred to 115 Squadron but other posts (thank you Joss, Alan and Dave) point to it having been transferred to a training role, even from early on and this would be supported by the following observations of its operational performance on the Belgian site. As I understand it from the Belgian site ( http://www.luchtoorlog.be/lanc_ii.htm ), because of the change of engines, the Mark II's had a lower operational altitude ceiling which meant that they had to fly in lower towards the target putting them at greater risk from flak. "On a raid in Jan 1943 with 61 Squadron, Sgt A. Gilpin (DS610) was unable to go above 4,270 m metres and had to abort the mission. Sergeant Champion had to bomb a "last alternative target" when he was only able to reach 4580 metres.

    It seems from the Belgian website the Mk. II's were transferred from 61 Squadron to 115 Squadron in June 1943, so the photo may have been taken after that time. There are some landscape details in the background that might help to identify the airfield and I have asked Sally if she could get a higher definition scan.

    On a personal note, thanks also for sharing your dad's reminiscences of his time in Regent's Park Recruiting Centre. Lorraine's father must have passed through there on his way to 10 ITW Scarborough.

    Once again, many thanks gentlemen for your help with this query.

    Howard

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Aubers, France
    Posts
    2,382
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default DS623 and DS605

    hello,

    I can't see any reference to DS605 in the ORB of No. 115 Squadron in May 1943. As for DS623, it was coded KO-T and was flown on three ops that month, with Sgt J. SMALL as captain.

    Only operational flight are recorded in the O.R.B.. The entry for 31st May 1943 is :
    Flying Training
    3 crews undertook FORMATION FLYING & 5 crews LOCAL FLYING PRACTICE.
    There were no operations today & nothing of interest occured.

    It is a possibility that DS610 was serving with No. 1678 Conversion Unit, which was sharing East Wretham with No. 115 Squadron. The crew I was interested in (F/O LARSON's) went through this C.U. before, and I actually found that LARSON flew one mission as "second dickey" pilot with 115 while he was apparently still on strength of 1678 CU...

    I have the ORB of 1678 C.U. but only June 1943 but there's unfortunately no serial number of any Lancaster recorded in it. I imagine the Form 78 (aircraft movement cards) for these Lancaster would prove helpful

    Or perhaps our expert on No. 3 Group may have some clues ?

    Joss

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Peterborough UK
    Posts
    381
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    According to the 115 Squadron Roll of Honour, DS610 was not operational whilst with the squadron. It came from 61 Squadron on 19/2/43 and went to 1657 CU 6/4/43. It was struck off charge 22/5/47 but this last date is open to question.
    Since it was not operational whilst with 115 it seems unlikely that it had a crew assigned to it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •