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Thread: Collision Over Lincolnshire 25/7/39

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    Default Collision Over Lincolnshire 25/7/39

    FLIGHT for 10th August 1939 has a report that AP/O William Leonard Wright and A/Sgt Leslie George Tarrant had been killed and F/O Percy Don Walker had been slightly injured in a collision between two RAF aircraft over Lincolnshire on 25/7/39.

    From the L serials the two aircraft involved can be identified fairly conclusively; the entry for Blenheim I L1465 reads: 23 Sqdn. Collided with Hart K4997 near Grantham 25.7.39.

    Since the Hart (from 7FTS) is listed in the first edition of K serials as crashing at Wansford on 2/3/40 presumably the crew were not fatally injured in this collision does the second edition provide more details regarding the collision? Was P/O Walker the pilot of the Hart?

    Can anybody confirm who was in each of the aircraft?

    Many thanks

    David Molyneux

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    Default

    Dave

    I get only 1 'hit' with

    blenheim <AND> hart <AND> Tarrant <AND> Wright <AND> Walker

    FIVE RAF MEN KILLED IN CRASHES - 26th July 1939

    ON the Guardian Archives

    Looks like the Guardian has more detail than the Times for RAF crashes as the Times does not even mention it

    Paul

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    Paul,

    Is there a Guardian online archive?

    Brian

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    Yes - And Observer

    But you have to pay!!!

    See my post on the Books and Reviews Forum


    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3

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    Default

    Thanks Paul,

    Seems a bit pricey when the Times digital archive is free - the only caveat being that one needs to be a member of a library.

    Brian

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    Brian

    I agree pricey, but you can search online and add stuff to your collecton (limited to around 20 articles) for a massive blitz in 24 hours or 3 days... A search on RAF AND Crash has listed over 1000 articles up to 1950 so there is a lot of stuff there.

    Also remember Guardian was the Manchester Guardian until 19?? so maybe more north England centric and the stuff I have seen for same article in Times ('news in Brief) is that the Guardian has more detail - In fact the article we are talking about on this thread mentions Blenheim and Hart and all 3 crewmembers !

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    Default The Gruniard

    Just don't forget that The Gruniard was (and still maybe for all I know!) the most famous UK newspaper for 'typos'. Is their archive corrected - or not? Otherwise they may be letting loose more date/time/place/ac s/n 'hares' to be chased than is necessary. Seems like it may be a good idea for Forumites to get together with queries, and hit 'em with a load for one 24-hr rate?? Or do I disclose a past employment in Govt service?
    Yrs Aye
    Peter Davies

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    Default Collision Over Lincolnshire

    Peter, Paul,

    As an addition to Paul's posting regarding the archive if you include Massingham you get to the same headline thereby pretty well confirming that the other three casualties were on the Battle which crashed at Great Massingham.

    I think we are capable of filtering out typos by the Guradian. For myself any data I collect is only accepted as gospel after a pretty rigorous check.

    I certainly think we should give the Guardian archive a fair trial especially in view of Paul's remark that it seems better than the Times archive. I agree that forumites should get together and put in one load for a 24 hour rate (currently 7.95). In fact I had already spoken to Paul off board along these lines.

    David Molyneux

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    Default Collision over Humby on 25-Jul-39

    I think the confusion here lies in the identity of the Hart

    AB K-Serials gives

    K4997 crashed near Wansford on 02-Mar-40

    BUT

    the Hart which collided with the Blenheim on 25-Jul-39 was K4977, the pilot being killed

    dg

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    I think, David, it all depends on what you are seeking. If it is a specfic incident or unusual place name, then Peter's idea is worth following up. However, if your search is not specfic then, as it stands, the archive is of little use. I tried two searches; one for the name Zobel, who gained a BSc at London University in 1934, (I'm writing an obit), the Guardian gave nothing, but I had an immediate hit with the Times.

    I'm also interested in Upavon between 1912 and 1916, so that was my second search. The Times allows you to fine-tune the time frame and allow any hit to be read, which means the unwanted ones can be discounted. In this instance the Times gave 85 hits. The Guardian gave just 74 hits between 1901 and 1950, and as most were identified by a headline only it is not possible to see which were relevant.

    That is where Peter's idea falls down; the researcher has to know EXACTLY which item he/she needs, and the way the Guardian presents the hits that is not possible.

    The Times certainly isn't perfect, but for a 'random' researcher it is much more user friendly.

    Unless, of course, I'm doing something wrong .......... .

    Brian

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