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Thread: 264sqn Defiant twist

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    Default 264sqn Defiant twist

    Defiant T4049 I raised on 10th Sept. when ?Mark cited Alec Brews 'Defiant File' with a/c history but mentioned 'Sgt Tokarczyk'. I received the crash card from Hendon yesterday. It refers to 'Sgt AJ Lander' as pilot of T4049 when it crashed on 7-9-41, not Sgt Tokarkzyk. Also what was an E.F. flight please? Duty was Night Opertnl E1, ?Ross, Dave
    Last edited by david cullen; 30th December 2009 at 22:47.

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    Engine Failure in flight.

    Ross
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    The history given in the Defiant File says "crew baled out" with Sgt L. Tokarzyk injured. I would suggest someone takes a look at the ORB to see who the gunner was as it should have been recorded, and is perhaps where Tokarzyk came from.
    Alan Clark

    Peak District Air Accident Research

    http://www.peakdistrictaircrashes.co.uk/

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    Thankyou Ross and Alan. The duty was E1, any ideas?
    Anyway Happy New Year. Dave

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    Very Sorry. I found the Hendon AM 1180 Form abbreviations list:

    http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/collections/archive/documents/Air%20Ministry%20Form%20Abbreviations.doc

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    Hi David,

    Depends on the revision of the Form 1180 as to what is where and how it is labelled.

    The damage catagory is usually entered in the Box A:B:C not in the Duty box.

    The arrangement you are looking at I think is Duty Box over Aircraft to the left and W:R:M to the right. E1 spanning the W:R M box and the bottom of the Duty box related to the airframe being classed at E1 - W (Cat E1, spares recovered, airframe written off)

    The K I box should show the numbers of crew Killed or Injured eg K - I 2 means O killed 2 injured. This should tell you the crew injuries.

    Regards
    Ross
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    Default Form 1180

    Ross.

    Except to add another twist, in the A:B:C box, I have a 'C'. Unless its a hybrid echoing the earlier AND later Categories (sounds familiar with C3 which was in relation to another a/c I looked into).

    Yes, the E.1 is written bottom right of the duty box.

    There's a dash in the K & I, therefore this possibly adds further doubt to the 'injury' sustained according to Brew, of he says 'Tokarczyk' not Sgt Lander (pilot) on this AM1180.

    Michael Tokarczyk (his Son) wrote to me last time I posted. He was I think going to look at his father's flying log book. I haven't heard back (yet).

    Anyone got a copy of Alec Brews Defiant File please to re-check this?

    Dave

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    Hi David,

    Units normally decided which category A B or C

    Roughly
    A - repair on site by squadron
    B - repair on site by station
    C - repair on/off site by MU or Civilian Repair Organisation.

    So the unit initially gave the damage as C (fair assumption if it was abandoned by parachute!)

    When it was assessed off site it was decided by the MU/CRO that the damage was beyond economic repair (Form 78 will give the unit) and re-cated as E. Damage could not have been that bad if it was assessed that components could be recovered and used as flying spares (Cat E1).

    So overall wreck Cat E.1 but the W:R:M then used to give the actual assessment of Airframe and Engine as Written Off, Repairable or Missing.

    Dash under K and I says that at the time the card was filled in, and until closed after the C of I, no injury was reported fo the crew.

    Regards
    Ross
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    Default form AM1180

    Thanks for the elucidation Ross.
    C3 on this other 1180 must in my mind have meant it wasn't therefore annihilated.
    Will check ORB for crew lists for this Defiant as recommended.
    Happy New Year.
    Dave

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    Hello Dave,

    AB's Defiant File has on page 94,
    T4049 c/n 551 deld to 24 MU 4.4.41; 264 Sqn 20.4.41. Engine cut; crew baled out over Elridge Road Tunbridge Wells Kent, 7.9.41; Sgt Tokarzyk injured.
    Index on page 128 has Tokarzyk Sgt. L.

    There is a F/Lt. A.J.Lander mentioned in the home gazettes archives and Met Flight/Sqdn.

    All for now
    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 31st December 2009 at 18:23.

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