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Thread: Coastal Command losses 7/8-4-45?

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    Default Coastal Command losses 7/8-4-45?

    Hello One & All,

    does anyone know of any four-engined Coastal Command operational losses on the night of 7-8 April 1945?

    Thanks

    Rod

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    No loss of No. 311 Sq with CC - Liberators on 7-8 Apr 45.

    Pavel

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    Hi Rod,

    A clue as to which geographical area you are looking at would help.

    Not on the night of 7/8th April but on the night of 08/09 April No.206 lost a Liberator. The remains were found in 1996 in position 57 35 57N 11 12 21E.

    Regards
    Ross

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    Hi Pavel & Ross,

    thank you for your replies.

    This question concerns an entry found in a Flugbuch of a German night fighter pilot. He (Ofw. Rudi Mangelsdorf) took off from Leck airfield (Schleswig-Holstein) at 18.22 hrs on the evening of 7-8 April 1945, claimed a four-motored aircraft at 20.10 hrs, which he thought may have been a 'Halifax', and then landed again at Leck at 22.31 hrs. Of course, it is possible that any aircraft that he attacked did not in fact crash.

    The area where Mangelsdorf made is claim is almost undecypherable in his Flugbuch, but presumably it was either over Denmark, or possibly the Heligoland Bight. It did not involve main raids by either the USAAF VIIIth AF or RAF Bomber Command, who did not have heavies in this area at this time. I cannot find any SOE/Special Ops losses either.

    The entry in the Flugbuch is the last by Mangelsdorf for the war, so that almost discounts his flight being the following night. Also, of several other pilots from his unit (for which I have logbooks), none also flew on the night in question.

    Cheers

    Rod

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    Hi Rod,

    The extra detail was helpful.

    I can confirm no 4 engined CC losses in that area on the night of 7/8 April.

    On my "must find out more" future research spike is the loss of Halifax LV935 of 1659 HCU.

    It is reported to have failed to return from a radar demonstration. I noted that a training loss without d/f fixes at that stage of the war was curious. The Canadian crew are listed on the Runnymede Memorial.

    As yet I have not checked any Canadian records to see where the flight was routed or confirmed take off time and date at Topcliffe.

    Have you eliminated this loss?

    Regards
    Ross

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    edit - meh, I see you've already considered the Carpetbagger issue - wasn't having any luck anyway.

    Hi Rod:

    According to one of the *.pdf doccos on Thomas Ensminger's Carpetbaggers site, the 492 BG was despatching aircraft at low level to Denmark and Norway during the hours of darkness during April 1945. As their losses "had increased materially during the month of April", they sent a memo to the Commanding General, United States Strategic Airforces in Europe, requesting the destruction of airfields in those countries from which night fighter planes were operating.

    Trying to find an MACR, see also German board.

    Cheers,

    Mark
    Last edited by mhuxt; 25th January 2008 at 12:14.

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    There is a 35 Squadron loss on that night - buried at Becklingen. The notes for the cemetery state that most of the burials were from the last few months of the war and were collected in from up to 80km away. So that would certainly fit with flying from Leck.

    BARR, ANDREW COULTER Flight Sergeant
    COBB, HARRY Flight Lieutenant
    MULLER, MELVILLE MAX VICTOR LEWIS Squadron Leader
    ROBINSON, THOMAS BROADLEY Flying Officer
    VICKERY, JOHN LESLIE Flying Officer
    WEBSTER, ROBERT CHRISTIE Flying Officer

    HTH

    Howard

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    Default 7-8 April '45

    Hi Ross, Mark, and Howard,

    thanks for the replies and input.

    Ross, thanks for confirming that no 4-eng. CC aircraft were lost on this night in this general area.

    No, I hadn't considered LV935 (I don't yet have Chorley's HCL BC Losses Vol), because it doesn't appear in the BC ORS logs of aircraft damaged or lost on operations. It would be interesting to know the route this aircraft was supposed to take, although it would be surprising if it had accidentially strayed that far eastward and close to German-controlled airspace during a training exercise.

    Mark,

    yes, I've already discounted a 492nd/Carpetbagger loss, and have yet to find reference to any combat encounters (i.e. an aircraft was not destroyed but made it home). In fact, my interpretation of the 492nd ops records is that they didn't actually fly that night.

    Howard,

    thanks for the details of he 35 Sqdn loss, which occurred on the following night - 8-9 April. I've discounted Mangelsdorf having made an error (re: date) in his flugbuch, since the time of his claim is around 2+ hours before heavies of the Hamburg raid of 8-9 April started encountering night fighters and suffering losses (and his claim is over an hour before the first night fighters began to take off to intercept the Hamburg raid of 8-9 April).

    'looks like I'll have to re-file this episode back into the 'mysteries' folder in the meantime!

    Cheers

    Rod

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    there is a loss of a wellington from 69 squadron on the 7/8th April 45, in the area of Deventer,holland on that date, the pilot was a M A Hunt, don't know if this is the right area.

    Regards
    Brett

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    Hi Rod:

    Yes, that's about as far as I'd got, doesn't appear they were flying.

    Just to let people know, Thomas Ensminger's amazing website on the Carpetbaggers is at:

    http://home.comcast.net/~801492bg.historian/MainMenu.htm

    With an enormous amount of original material at his ftp site:

    ftp://76.27.22.233/

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