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Thread: Lancaster III PB407 460 Sqn

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    Default Lancaster III PB407 460 Sqn

    Hello everybody,

    This is my first post for a long time, hopefully can someone confirm my theory/findings.

    On the 7th October 1944, the above lancaster was lost on the raid to Emmerich due to being hit by incendaries from a higher flying aircraft.

    Does anyone know where this aircraft exactly came down after the crew had abanoned it.?

    I have in my possesion a copy of Sqdn Ldr Greenacres escape and evasion report that he wrote after being released from captivity in 1945, stating that he left the aircraft at 2000ft and landed about 12 miles SSE of Kleve.

    Due to my research here in Germany I received information about an unknown aircraft which had come down with one wing in flames in the afternoon on Saturday or Sunday late summer /early autumn of 1944, two pieces of this aircraft were removed by a local civilian at the time of the crash and donated to our history group last spring.

    One piece is a combined pitot/static probe, of the type normally fitted to P47, B26 and B24 aircraft.

    The second piece is a 303 Browning, which is in a poor state, as he was afraid he would get into trouble having it in his possesion, he buried it, and during the fighting in the area in February 1945, it was run over by a tank.

    So, this crash site has been partially searched by myself last november, two parts found could give further clues as to the identity of this aircraft.

    One part is a piece of aluminium, dimensions 1" by 1.5" with a number 3D313 stamped on it.
    Lancaster?

    Second part is a piece of engine housing with the number 601500-? and below this the ser No 425 stamped on it.
    Is the number a Packard engine part number?

    Adding all the info together I think that this aircraft is the above mentioned.

    As the site is still active I can only say that it is in the Pfalzdorf area.

    Greeting from Uedem

    Steve H.

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    Sorry for the double entry, it is late!!!

    Steve

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    Hi Steve,

    The Bombaimer on this aircraft was Keith Harris and he is still alive. He was on his second tour after doing his first tour with 460. In fact he did 20 of his 30 trips in the famous G for George which is now in the Australian War Memorial. I have a photo of Keith when he trained to be a pilot in Canada in 1942.

    If you contact me on jwilliamsATeftel.com.au change the AT for the usual I'll be happy to email you a copy of the photo.

    Regards,

    John.

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    Steve

    There is a considerable amount about Harris' first tour in Nelmes' and Jenkins' "G-For-George". It also says "Harris' experiences are related in the section dealing with prisoners of war." I'm not sure if this section is in the book or if it's a reference to something else. Haven't found a "prisoner of war section" in the book yet.

    Andy

    Edit: I suspect they are either referring to a section of the book that was not published or to the actual collection of the AWM or NAA.
    Edit edit: Keith Edwin Harris' service number was 420189. If you visit the NAA and search using this, you'll pull up his records and some of the crew as well. I had a very quick look at his file containing telegrams to his next of kin etc but I'm sure there's more. I did note a comment of the crew being seen to leave the Lanc at "5-7 miles SW of the target".
    Last edited by Andy in West Oz; 12th February 2010 at 11:36.

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    Hello Andy,

    Check out pp.53-6

    Col.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL BRUGGY View Post
    Hello Andy,

    Check out pp.53-6

    Col.
    Oh, duh, thanks, Col, I'm a goose. If I'd actually checked all of the Harris references it would have made a lot of sense but I was looking for an appendix or something similar. Really should read the book one of these days too.

    Thanks heaps. Not much to add from that section, Steve, other than it was the port outer that caught fire.

    Andy
    Last edited by Andy in West Oz; 12th February 2010 at 11:46. Reason: sp

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    Default Help maybe

    Just off at a tangent but a lady on Rootschat forum was looking for help ref 405 Sqn. My little book of words has nothing about any of the 400 series sqns so have pointed her in your direction...
    Dee

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    Hi Steve

    Are you interested in digital images of the 11 Group ORB Appendix for 7 October 1944, which lists the fighter squadrons escorting your Lanc on this operation?

    If so, please mail me at brew AT clients DOT ch

    Steve
    41 (F) Squadron RAF at War and Peace, April 1916-March 1946
    http://brew.clients.ch/41sqnraf.htm

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    Default PB407 Emmerich loss

    Ft Lt Greenacre 460 Sqn was my uncle on my mother's side. Quite a few years ago I commenced a family history concerning him that became very extensive and included the reports (two) that he filed when he returned to Britain after release from Stalag Luft 3 in 1945. There is a great deal else, including good family memorabilia and artifacts.

    The gap in my research is exactly where PB407 came down - we know from his report it was in the Reichwald Forest etc. (Liberation Report) and whether or not any records exist of the finding of the wreckage. Steve H is the nearest and somewhat exciting piece of evidence I've come across. I'm aware that the Luftwaffe kept records of all downed Allied aircraft and that some of these records exist in various places, Bonn, Frieborg, etc. However the next step of tracing such a record seemed too hard. However, the thought that such a record may exist for PB407 is tantalising.

    In his MI9 statement Ft Lt Greenacre noted that he and 6 of his crew was taken out of Stalag Luft 3 to be re-interrogated about 'Village Inn' (AGLT). Given this, it would seem that the Luftwaffe would have been sure to make a good record of the location etc of PB407.

    The posts on this thread are very old, however I live in hope that someone is still reading the thread.

    Roger

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