RCAF aircraft lost 19.2.45 from Canada over N Atlantic

[PeteS]

An aircraft of 11 Squadron RCAF was lost on 19 Feb 1945 on an anti-submarine patrol flying from Canada.

Please can anybody add anything to this notes.

[Bill Walker]

Liberator GR VI #3715 "F", ex USAAF 44-10637, was lost on 19 or 20 February 1945, without a trace. They failed to return from an ASW patrol. F/L G.F.R. Apps and 6 crew never found, although some wreckage later washed up on Sable Island. They had taken off from Dartmouth late on the 19th, the RCAF records list the loss date as the 20th. I'm not sure if this means they knew more about the exact time of loss. Finally declared a write off on 22 February 1945.

[PeteS]

Thanks Bill

I had a few problems getting back to the forum last week (my end) but got here in the end, your help is greatly appreciated.

[Resmoroh]

Bill,
Do you know of any specific Met Recce flights operating from Canadian bases out over the Atlantic? Alternatively, do you know if these AS Patrols rendered enhanced Met reports? Not looking for precise info at this stage. But a source of more detailed info would be great (if one exists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
TIA
Peter Davies

[dfuller52]

Hi Peter,

Found these references online at the home page of the Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society.

http://www.cmos.ca/bibliography.html

http://www.cmos.ca/wxsvchistory.html#Atmosphere%20Volume%209%20Number %203

CANADIAN METEOROLOGICAL SERVICE: Annual Reports.

MACHATTIE, L.B., 1946; Report on services provided the RCAF by the Meteorological Division during the war years 1939-45. Unpublished manuscript, 113 pp.

PATTERSON, J., 1953: History of Canadian meteorological service (during World War II - 1939-45). Unpublished manuscript, 284 pp.

http://www.cmos.ca/CenturyMeteorology1971_part1.pdf

[Bill Walker]

Peter;

From memory, met reporting was part of the assigned task to the BR squadrons operating on both coasts. By the end of the war, as the BR squadrons ran down but heavy air traffic continued over the North Atlantic, Eastern Air Command did form a met flight on the east coast, from a detachment of 10 (BR) Squadron. The detachment was in existance by July 1945 doing weather flights from several locations, and became the EAC Met. Flight after 10 Squadron disbanded in August 1945. Aircraft I have identified are Liberators 3732, 3735, and 3742. Somewhere I have photos of some their Liberators with extra met thingies hanging off the side of the nose. I will dig a bit and see what more I might have. This Fight also operated Cansos, but I don't have many details. It appears they disbanded some time in 1946, probably after the last Lancasters and Dakotas came home.

Western Air Command had a couple of Composite Flights, "K Flights" in RCAF-speak, in BC and northern Alberta with Bolingbrokes, Cansos and various small utility aircraft that did some weather flights. They also did photo survey, general transport, and were the first trained and dedicated ASR units in the RCAF. I'm just starting to dig into this area and don't have much yet. I haven't found an official WAC Met. Flight yet, but there might have been some. Added: I just remembered that 8 (BR) Squadron at Sea Island and later Patricia Bay had a roving detachment of Venturas by 1944 doing met flights from various locations in BC and maybe Alaska. I will try to find out more, if you are interested.

K Flights continued in existence across Canada right up to the late 1960s, and always did a mix of tasks. Some of them may have done met flights. Very little has been written about these units.

The National Research Council (NRC) operated a mixed bag of RCAF aircraft with RCAF crews, on weather research missions (and other scientific things) starting some time during the war. By the 1950s the aircraft and crew had become civilians, and this work continues right up to the present. Just as an example, they still operate the last government owned Harvard, although it is on the civil register. I believe it was being used for air sampling in the 1980s. The NRC and RCAF had a joint thunderstorm and hail storm chasing flight, using instrumented and armoured T-Birds, operating across western Canada in the 1950s up to the 1970s. According to RCAF folk-lore, one T-Bird was written off after landing back at base after an extremely nasty encounter with a prairie storm. Other aircraft used by the NRC on weather flights have included Anson Mk. 5s, a North Star, a CC-109 Cosmo, and a range of light civil aircraft.

Also from memory, the coast watch radar stations on both coasts included detailed weather info in their regular reports up the chain. The Department of Transport operated radio stations, emergency airfields, and nav aids in some pretty remote locations from the early 1930s right up to today, and they also included weather info in their daily reports.

[Dakota]

G'day Chaps

A portion of No. 10 (BR) Squadron took over the duties of the R.C.A.F.'s Eastern Air Command Meteorological Flight on the 2nd of August 1945. It became known as the Liberator Meteorological Flight. On the 13th of August, they officially took over R.C.A.F. Eastern Air Command's Met Flight in its entirety. The Liberator Met Flight was disbanded on the 30th of September 1945.

Cheers...Chris

[Bill Walker]

Thanks Chris. Did the EAC Met flight exist prior to August 1945? Did WAC have any Met Flights? I'm wondering what happened to 8 Squadron's met detachment after the parent unit disbanded.

[Lyffe]

Bill/Chris,

Apologies if you are already aware of what follows but I mention it to try and bring Peter's request into context. Following the outbreak of war both the UK and Germany were almost totally deprived of weather observations from the Atlantic and the North Sea - crucial for both countries since most of their weather came from the west or the North Sea.

To provide regular observations at, or very near sea level for these data-sparse areas, both countries developed meteorological reconnaissance squadrons - the German Wekusta or the British Meteorological Flights, although the latter soon became simply RAF squadrons with no definitive name. Broadly speaking both operated the same way, their aircraft flew standard tracks from a fixed coastal start-point, making observations were made at 50 miles intervals at 1800 ft; the sortie included an ascent to 18000 ft at the furthest point from base. This was subsequently followed by a descent to 1800 ft and the low-level observations were resumed for the return to base.

So far as the British aircraft were concerned that was theire prime role, although sightings of enemy submarines/boats were reported although, in isolated instances early in the war, submarines were depth-charged.

I think what Peter is asking is did RCAF aircraft operate in the same way - flying a standard course every day making observations at frequent intervals, rather than making observations along a random track when other commitments allowed?

I'm not sure met observations over the West Atlantic would be economically beneficial to Canada since weather systems mostly move either from west to east, or southwest to northeast - ie, away from Canada. There were also USN ships stationed east of Canada for weather reporting purposes.

None of the on-line accounts David lists (thank you David) actually mentions met data from such a source, but it would certainly be interesting to know if the ORBs for the BR squadrons specifically refer to met reconnaissance sorties as opposed to general reconnaissance sorties.

Peter's posed an interesting question that I hadn't thought about before - and certainly one that I've not seen in any literature.

Brian

[Resmoroh]

PeteS (and others)
Sorry if yr thread has been slightly hijacked, but you can see that there is some considerable interest in who did what, where, when, and for what purpose over that bit of the N Atlantic Oggin in WW2. The Met Section on this Forum will sit and wait until we know the right questions to ask (My Leader will take the initiative on this!) but - and this is a big BUT(!) - we now know who is likely to have the answers!!!!!!! You have been warned!
Many thanks for your interest.
Yrs Aye
Peter Davies