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Thread: German ME262 - Shot down - March 31st 1945 - help please

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    Default German ME262 - Shot down - March 31st 1945 - help please

    After carrying out some reaseach in to PO J Watson RCAF I was informed by a forum member of the following link http://www.6grouprcaf.com/March45/Mar3145 which states -

    Watson flying Lancaster NG-281 as part of a force of 428 bombers to attack the Blohm and Voss shipyards at Hamburg.

    On March 31st _ F/O J. Watson and crew, flying Lancaster I NG-281 coded QB-X, were attacked 3 times by ME-262s. There was no damage and one was claimed destroyed after strikes were seen on one of the engines. After more strikes at 250 yards it lost control and with flames streaming down the underside of the fuselage, it spiraled into the clouds, still on fire.

    What I am now trying to find out is if this loss is recorded in German archives ? would there be anyway of finding out who the crew of the ME262 were ?

    I have carried out a Google search " ME262 LOSSES 31ST MARCH 1945" but can find nothing listed.

    Any help or a point in the right direction would be much appreciated.

    Thank you
    Regards

    Brett

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    Default German ME262 - Shot down - March 31st 1945 - help please

    I am not an expert within German losses neither Me262. But among several losses among this type of aircraft on 31/3 1945 was:

    Me 262A-1a, Serial number 900594 from JG 7. Pilot unknown and missing. Shot down, possibly by RAF bombers, possibly by Stewart W. Murphy, rear gunner, Lancaster, 431 Squadron RCAF.

    I am aware, that 431 Sqn took part in the Hamburg Mission.

    Source: Second-hand source, suppose original source must be Messerschmitt Combat Diary by John Foreman. So maybe you shall go after this book.

    Regards

    Finn Buch

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    By pure coincidence I was at the NA today and copied the Narrative of Operations 1943-1945, and that record shows no less than seven aircraft claimed to have destroyed or probably destroyed a Me262 near Hamburg between 0903 and 0906 hours:

    They were:

    Lancaster "A" of 428 Sqn (0906 hours - Burst into flames and disintegrated)
    Lancaster "T" of 434 Sqn (0904 hours - Appeared to stall and dive steeply out of control)
    Lancaster "S" of 431 Sqn (0904 hours - Tail assembly fell off and Me262 last seen falling out of control)
    Lancaster "Y" of 433 Sqn (0903 hours - Last seen going down through clouds smoking)
    Lancaster "D" of 433 Sqn (0903 hours Pieces of wind seen to break off and was last seen falling earthwards and training smoke)
    Lancaster "X" of 424 Sqn (0906 hours - Last seen going into cloud on fire)
    Lancaster "Q" of 429 Sqn (0904 hours - Parts seen to fall off starboard wing and last seen in spiral dive, apparently out of control).

    In addition a further five claims of damaged ME262s were made.

    Edit:

    Brett,

    You could try the Luftwaffe Experten Message Board at http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forums/ ; they are pretty knowledgeable.

    Brian
    Last edited by Lyffe; 31st March 2010 at 22:24.

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    Default ME-262 Claims/Losses

    There were about 60 combat reports submitted by gunners on this op. If you read the narrative, "combat reports" you can see that the same gunners were making the same claims, as more than one gunner was firing at the same aircraft. There used to be a record of ME-262 losses, per Wknr on the net at one time. If I remember correctly, 2 were missing on Mar 31,1945. I do not know if they were lost in this area.
    richard

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    See http://www.legionmagazine.com/en/index.php/2009/12/fighting-german-jets-air-force-part-36/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard.K View Post
    There were about 60 combat reports submitted by gunners on this op. If you read the narrative, "combat reports" you can see that the same gunners were making the same claims, as more than one gunner was firing at the same aircraft. There used to be a record of ME-262 losses, per Wknr on the net at one time. If I remember correctly, 2 were missing on Mar 31,1945. I do not know if they were lost in this area.
    richard
    -------

    I can see JG 7 lost another Me-262 aircraft with the serial numbers 900612, claimed by same Stewart W. Murphy. American fighters also took their part of the Me-262 aircraft same day.

    It was late in war, so German sources about lost aircraft and pilots can be incomplete.

    Finn Buch

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    It strikes me reading the narrative that the seven reports actually described two distinct actions:

    "A" and "S" of 428 and 431 Squadrons respectively refer the 'their' Me262 disintegrating, whereas all the others, including Watson's "X", are remarkably consistent in their descriptions of their claim diving/falling earthwards and training smoke.

    Brian

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    Thank you all very much for all the help and information you have provided. This has helped a great deal.

    Thanks again

    Regards
    Brett

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