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Thread: Sgt F New 11sqn RAF Killed Oct 1918

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    Default Sgt F New 11sqn RAF Killed Oct 1918

    Hi,
    I am trying to research the service of 15538 Sergeant Frank NEW, RAF, 11 Squadron, who was killed in flying accident in Bristol F2B No.A7153 age 21. (Pilot Lt. J.W. COONS). Basically i am trying to establish if he was a Gunner or observer and any sorties he may have flown prior to the crash - was it a training accident or did they crash on return from an Op? any info or guidance would be greatly appreicated.

    Thanks in advance,
    Rick

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    Rick,

    If no-one can answer your question here try the Great War Forum at http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php? . It has sections covering all aspects of WW1 including "The war in the air". You have to register, but I've used it myself and found the chaps very helpful.

    Brian

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    Default Sgt Frank New, 11 sqdn

    Also of note is that 11 sqdn also lost 2/Lt Thomas Peacock MM and 2/Lt George Kelty on the same day (Oct 3, 1918). All four buried in Bagneux British Cemetery, Gezaincourt.

    None of these four aircrew are listed in Trevor Henshaw's "The Sky Their Battlefield" suggesting a training or other non-operational loss.

    Lets hope one of the WW1 experts picks this up.

    Regards,

    Ian

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    Ian,

    Trevor's answered Rick's question at http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=144973. The four men were killed following a collision of their aeroplanes whilst on a reconnaissance sortie.

    Brian

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    Thanks Brian, now we know.

    Regards,

    Ian

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    Guys, many thanks for the info, if they were killed in a collision whilst on a recconaissance sortie, would they be classed as killed in action or accidently killed? If they had to break formation due to an attack by enemy aircraft and then collided with each other I would class that as KIA. Can anybody verify this?

    Cheers,
    Rick

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    Rick,

    I don't know if the definition you are seeking was used during WW1, but from The Times (1 Feb 1943) the WW2 definition of casualties in action was:

    'Casualties "in action" are due to flying operations against the enemy; "on active service" includes ground casualties due to enemy action, non-operational flying casualties, fatal accidents, and natural deaths.'

    "Flying operations against the enemy" was interpreted as being in action (air combat/bombing). If the cause of the loss was known to be accidental, as it was in your case (Trevor gives no indication of enemy involvement) I'd suggest this was an instance of KOAS rather than KIA - that's provided the WW2 definition also applied to WW1.

    In the long run the result is the same - a name on a memorial.

    Brian

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