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Thread: 14 October 1939 crash in Canada

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    Default 14 October 1939 crash in Canada

    Hello,

    I would like to know in which aircraft were killed two Canadian airmen, Plt Off Horace Kenneth Corbett and Plt Off George James Olstead, in a crash on 14 October 1939 east of Snow Road, Ontario. According to the Montreal Gazette of 16 October 1939, they took off from Trenton for a navigation flight and crashed six miles east of Snow Road.

    Thanks in advance

    Laurent

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    Default

    According to the cvwm website:

    http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/content/collections/virtualmem/photoview.cfm?casualty=2851152&photo=20525

    they were killed in a Fairey Battle "No:1304"

    Regards,

    Dave

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    Default

    This was ex RAF P2173, and was one of the first batch of Battles received by the RCAF in August 1939. The aircraft was with the Advanced Training School at Trenton, a pre-BCATP unit. Snow Road is about 80 miles north-east of Trenton, and would lie on the track of a Trenton-Ottawa flight. My notes show the crash time as 11:00 local.

    I believe this was the first RCAF Battle write off.

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    Default

    I've as unit # 1 ANS and crashed in Sharbot Lake about 6 km NW of Snow Road.
    Regards,
    Henk.

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    Default Battle Prang

    G'day Chaps

    The accident record card shows it as 10 miles southwest of Snow Road (Sharbot Lake) at 11:00 hrs. on the 14th of October, 1939.

    The Battle was on a nav ex when it hit the ground at an over-the-vertical dive at high speed. The visibility at the time was poor with favourable icing conditions. The pilot was assessed as having below-average skills when it came to instrument flying. Also as a result of this accident, the use of camouflage on training aircraft at schools was ceased. All training aircraft flying away from training school aerodromes were to be equipped with a small emergency kit which includes first aid, matches and signalling devices.

    Pilot - P/O G. J. Oldstead
    Flying TIme On Type - (Battle)
    35 minutes dual (really!)
    4.05 hours solo
    Flying Time = Total Dual - 87.05 hours / Total Solo - 51.20 hours

    Passenger - P/O H. K. Corbett (also a pilot)


    Cheers...Chris

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    Henk, 1 ANS didn't form until February 1940. It was one of several units that probably split from the old ATS Flights at Trenton and Borden at about that time (including No. 1 SFTS in November 1939 at Borden and CFS in February 1940 at Trenton).

    And a quick look at a map places the west half of Sharbot Lake about 12 miles due south of Snow Road. Today there are several small communities on or near the lake, but I guess in 1939 Snow Road was the nearest bit of civilization.

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    Default

    Thanks a lot to all of you, I didn't except so much detailled answers !

    Here is how this loss will appear in my database::

    The Fairey Battle I 1304 of the RCAF Advanced Training School at Trenton, a pre-BCATP unit, took off from Trenton in the morning of 14 October 1939 for a navigation exercie. At 1100 hrs it hit the ground at an over-the-vertical dive at high speed near Sharbot Lake, 10 miles southwest of Snow Road, Ontario, killing both men aboard, Plt Off Horace Kenneth Corbett (pilot) and Plt Off George James Olstead (passenger, also a pilot). Snow Road is about 80 miles north-east of Trenton, and would lie on the track of a Trenton-Ottawa flight. The visibility at the time was poor with favourable icing conditions. The pilot was assessed as having below-average skills when it came to instrument flying. Also as a result of this accident, the use of camouflage on training aircraft at schools was ceased. All training aircraft flying away from training school aerodromes were to be equipped with a small emergency kit which includes first aid, matches and signalling devices.

    The aircraft was the ex RAF P2173, and was one of the first batch of Battles received by the RCAF in August 1939. The aircraft was with the Advanced Training School at Trenton, a pre-BCATP unit. This was probably the first RCAF Battle write off.

    Source:
    The Montreal Gazette, 17 October 1939 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ob4tAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rZgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=19 67,2749326&dq=crashed&hl=en)
    http://wwii.ca/memorial/world-war-ii/
    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8270
    http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/content/collections/virtualmem/photoview.cfm?casualty=2851152&photo=20525
    http://www.ody.ca/~bwalker/RCAF_1300_1349_detailed.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharbot_Lake
    http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.766667,-76.683333&spn=0.1,0.1&t=m&q=44.766667,-76.683333

    Thanks again

    Laurent

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    Default A.t.s.

    G'day Laurent

    The Advanced Training School was formed on the 1st of May 1939 when No. 1 Flying Training School was split into the Advanced Training School and the Intermediate Training School. The Advanced Training School remained at R.C.A.F. Station Trenton, Ontario while the Intermediate Training School moved to R.C.A.F. Station Camp Borden, Ontario by the 8th of May. The school was also referred to as the Advanced Training Squadron.

    The A.T.S. itself moved to R.C.A.F. Station Camp Borden circa the 22nd of January 1940, It re-joined the Intermediate Training School and this new school was re-designated as No. 1 Service Flying Training School, becoming a component of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan.

    Cheers...Chris

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    The abbreviation ATS (Advanced Training Squadron) was standard in the RAF and RNZAF (and possibly the RAAF) in the period from just prewar till quite late in WW2 (in the case of the RNZAF), although other services may well have changed this; for instance the RCAF schools definitely dropped the ITS/ATS division when they reorganized their SFTS's quite early in WW2 when they cut out all weapons training in these schools, and henceforth internal organization was simply by Flights so far as I know. I cannot see how you could have an SFTS (Service Flying Training School) in 1939/1940 period with sub-units also titled as schools; generally large schools and other training units in Commonwealth air forces in WW2 were subdivided into Squadrons, then again into Flights, much as was the case at ITW, etc.
    David D

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