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Thread: Does anybody now these men

  1. #1
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    Default Does anybody now these men

    This picture i belive was taken before 09 Jan 1943. I know that because the middle man in the group is Sgt Cyril J Osborne, 1295241, 51 Sqn, RAF Snaith, KIA 09 Jan 1943. Can anybody name the others, the plane looks like a Halifax, "sorry im Army not RAF" If they can, then when and where was this taken.
    Cyril was my nans 1st husband, KIA while on mining mission of the coast of Demark/Holland. Aircraft DT483, all crew KIA. How and why it happened is unknown.
    Many thanks, Sean.
    Ive just noticed that i cant post pictures, so that scuppers that idea. Just a long shot, does anybody know anything about the mentioned Sgt of his crew? sorry for the run around, Sean.
    Last edited by tam3273; 3rd May 2010 at 22:53. Reason: didnt reliase that i couldnt post pictures.

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    Hi Sean,

    Not having seen the photo, but if there are 7 men in the photo then its most likely his crew. If so then the crew is made up of 1 Kiwi the pilot and 2 Canadians and 4 English.

    They were;

    Sgt R A Banks-Martin RNZAF Pilot.
    Sgt J E L Griffiths RAF F/Eng
    F/S P A J Rudkin RAF B/Aimer
    Sgt E W D Roberts RCAF Nav
    Sgt R J A Cowan RCAF W/Op
    Sgt H A Smith RAF Mid/Upper
    Sgt C J Osborne RAF R/Gunner

    According to Errol Martyn's book they were on a mining operation to lay mines off the German Island of Juist. In Halifax DT483 MH-F.

    According to Theo Boiten's book on the German Nightfighters they were shot down by Maj Helmunt Lent for his 57th victory. They were shot down 10 km West of Texel in the North Sea. Helmunt Lent was Germany's second highest scoring night fighter pilot in WWII.

    I hope that helps. Errol will no doubt be on latter with details on the pilot.

    Regards,

    John.

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    Sean,

    From my 'For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Three: Biographies & Appendices)':

    BANKS-MARTIN, Sergeant Robert Alexander.
    NZ414226; b Akatarawa 12 Oct 16; Wgtn TColl; farm hand - with father at Whitemans Valley. RNZAF Levin/ITW as Airman Pilot u/t 27 Jul 41, 3EFTS 7 Sep 41, emb for Canada 17 Nov 41, att RCAF 1 Dec 41, 4SFTS 5 Dec 41, Pilots Badge & Sgt 27 Mar 42, 1 Y Depôt 8 Apr 42, att RAF & emb for UK 1 May 42, 3PRC 13 May 42, 2(P)AFU 16 Jun 42, 10OTU (Whitley - 2 ops) 14 Jul 42 [att Det Flt at St Eval for anti-sub ops - dates? (? ops)], 78CF [merged into 1658HCU 7.10.42] (Halifax) 22 Sep 42, 51 Sqn (Halifax - ? ops) 22 Nov 42, kao 9 Jan 43. Runnymede Memorial - Panel 199. Son of Robert Guthrie & Rosina Banks-Martin (née McMillan), Dyerville.

    And from Vol Two (Fates: 1943-1998):

    Sat 9/Sun 10 Jan 1943
    BOMBER COMMAND

    Gardening - mining in the Frisian Islands, German Bight and the Kattegat (by 121 aircraft - 6 lost)
    51 Squadron, RAF (Snaith, Yorkshire - 4 Group)
    Halifax II DT483/F - took off at 1634 to lay mines off the German island of Juist in the Nectarines area, and last heard from at 1837. Lost without trace, the seven crew are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial.
    Captain: NZ414226 Sgt Robert Alexander BANKS-MARTIN, RNZAF - Age 26. 423hrs.

    Errol

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    There is a very poor quality photo of Banks-Martin on the Auckland Museum website if you want to try and identify him on your photo. You can zoom in to look closer at the faces, but i think Banks-Martin is slightly in shade, so may be a bit tricky:

    http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/general/RecordDetail.aspx?dataset=Cenotaph&SearchID=817572 6&Ordinal=1&OriginalID=17641

    Cheers, Tom

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    Hi Sean,
    Sorry to disappoint you but the photo you emailed to me is of the 426sqdn "Elder" crew. Left to right.....Pottage, Cook, Clements, Elder, Newberry, Mosley and Hopper. I can see a likeness in the picture of Cyril and one of the crew in the group photo, but unfortunatley, not the same person.
    Regards.......Alan.

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    Default Good on yer!

    Quote Originally Posted by tam3273 View Post
    This picture i belive was taken before 09 Jan 1943. I know that because the middle man in the group is Sgt Cyril J Osborne, 1295241, 51 Sqn, RAF Snaith, KIA 09 Jan 1943. Can anybody name the others, the plane looks like a Halifax, "sorry im Army not RAF" If they can, then when and where was this taken.
    Cyril was my nans 1st husband, KIA while on mining mission of the coast of Demark/Holland. Aircraft DT483, all crew KIA. How and why it happened is unknown.
    Many thanks, Sean.
    Ive just noticed that i cant post pictures, so that scuppers that idea. Just a long shot, does anybody know anything about the mentioned Sgt of his crew? sorry for the run around, Sean.
    Dont apologise for being in the Army me dear the fact that you are doing the research is enough and its taken me a while to learn the difference between these old planes....
    Dee

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    Many thanks Alan, sorry to hear it wasnt Cyrils crew, but it opens another door. My wifes Grandfather served with a Bomber crew, RCAF and her nan mentioned 426 Sqn years ago when we tried to research him. So thanks for the help and you have given me another quest to search. I love history and i am learning so much in what i am researching. Keep up the good work one and all..Lest we forget, Lest we forget. Sean.

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