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Thread: AB-IX query RCAF T-33 crash 16 July 1953

  1. #11
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    Having looked at the WINIPEG FREE PRESS for 16th July I feel it very likely that van der Haar was in the Harvard; a report of the crash states that two occupants were killed but no names were provided or published in subsequent editions.

    In the same issue of that newspaper is a news story about the first T-33 arriving at Macdonald for weapons training, no date stated but presumably within the previous few days. I think if the T-33 had crashed it would have been mentioned.

    Note that it is Macdonald MB, not MacDonald, not the usual spelling but I think it is just fine!

    Ian Macdonald

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    Default MacDonald or Mcdonald

    G'day Ian

    I have official R.C.A.F. documentation that spells it both ways but your spelling is the correct version. Perhaps some of your ancestors relocated there?

    Cheers...Chris

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    Ian and Chris I think the fact that we only can Id one RCAF casuality in the Harvard and there were 2 casualties indicates to me that Haar was on the aircraft*

    thanks

    Paul

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    Default AB-1X Van der Haar

    I was a fellow student of Van der Haar, course #44. It was his first dive bombing exercise and as such had an instructor, F/O MacGregor, in the rear seat (Harvard Mk2). Fellow students in the holding pattern observed the accident and said pullout was attempted very low, aircraft high speed stalled and went in inverted. Probably target fixation. We buried him at Portage.
    Incidently there were no T-33's at MacDonald at the time and very few in the RCAF. The first T-33 we saw was at Chatham NB in Nov 1953. We were sent there to convert to F-86's. There were only two T-birds, both American Allisons. There wern't enough T-33s available for Jet check outs so after one fam flight, mainly for area and pattern awareness, we were sent solo in the F-86. You could always tell a first solo as the black exhaust trail would go for miles before he got up courage to turn.
    'Those were the days'.

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    MacDonald is correct, the MB stands for the province Manitoba.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ian M Macdonald View Post
    Having looked at the WINIPEG FREE PRESS for 16th July I feel it very likely that van der Haar was in the Harvard; a report of the crash states that two occupants were killed but no names were provided or published in subsequent editions.

    In the same issue of that newspaper is a news story about the first T-33 arriving at Macdonald for weapons training, no date stated but presumably within the previous few days. I think if the T-33 had crashed it would have been mentioned.

    Note that it is Macdonald MB, not MacDonald, not the usual spelling but I think it is just fine!

    Ian Macdonald

  6. #16
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    Default T-33's at Portage 1952 ???

    there were no T-33's at Portage or anywhere else. An example of equipment at the time. Course 44 (Van der Haar and mine) #4 FTS Calgary July 1952. Initial training aircraft, Harvard Mk 2 & Mk4. There were no Chipmonks or any other initial aircraft. Quite a challenge to students who hadn't even driven a car. We graduated to Portage for advanced flying, once again on Harvard Mk4. Wings were won on graduation and we proceeded to MacDonald for air to air & air to ground gunnery. Harvard Mk2's. Then to Chatham to go from Harvards to F-86s. The training received was exceptional as course 44 in two years had no accidents, not even ground loops or leaving the runway. Sadly Our first and only accident was Van der Haar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
    G'day Pa

    The only accident that shows up on the Daily Station Diary on that date was a Harvard Mk. IIA s/n 2646 and coded HU*J. While pulling out of a dive at the Langruth, Manitoba air-to-ground range, the aircraft stalled and crashed. The Harvard was from No. 1 Pilot Weapons School.

    No. 1 Air Gunnery School (No. 1 A.G.S.) was also known as No. 1 Aerial Gunnery School. For a period of time it was referred to as the Air Gunnery and Advanced Flying School. The school was re-designated as No. 1 Pilot Weapons School on the 15th of February 1953.

    The Canadair Silver Stars (T-33) had all left R.C.A.F. Station MacDonald for No. 2 Advanced Flying School at R.C.A.F. Station Portage La Prairie by the 19th of November, 1952.

    Cheers...Chris

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    Default T-33's at Portage 1952 ???---- Cathcon

    there were no T-33's at Portage or anywhere else. An example of equipment at the time. Course 44 (Van der Haar and mine) #4 FTS Calgary July 1952. Initial training aircraft, Harvard Mk 2 & Mk4. There were no Chipmonks or any other initial aircraft. Quite a challenge to students who hadn't even driven a car. We graduated to Portage for advanced flying, once again on Harvard Mk4. Wings were won on graduation and we proceeded to MacDonald for air to air & air to ground gunnery. Harvard Mk2's. Then to Chatham to go from Harvards to F-86s. The training received was exceptional as course 44 in two years had no accidents, not even ground loops or leaving the runway. Sadly Our first and only accident was Van der Haar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
    G'day Pa

    The only accident that shows up on the Daily Station Diary on that date was a Harvard Mk. IIA s/n 2646 and coded HU*J. While pulling out of a dive at the Langruth, Manitoba air-to-ground range, the aircraft stalled and crashed. The Harvard was from No. 1 Pilot Weapons School.

    No. 1 Air Gunnery School (No. 1 A.G.S.) was also known as No. 1 Aerial Gunnery School. For a period of time it was referred to as the Air Gunnery and Advanced Flying School. The school was re-designated as No. 1 Pilot Weapons School on the 15th of February 1953.

    The Canadair Silver Stars (T-33) had all left R.C.A.F. Station MacDonald for No. 2 Advanced Flying School at R.C.A.F. Station Portage La Prairie by the 19th of November, 1952.

    Cheers...Chris

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    Default Let's Spell It Correctly

    Cathcon, your 23rd October post; the Concise Gazeteer of Canada published by the Canadian Permanent Committee on Geographical Names spells it Macdonald, not MacDonald.
    And, yes, I know that MB is the abbreviation for Manitoba.

    Ian Macdonald

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    Default You are correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian M Macdonald View Post
    Cathcon, your 23rd October post; the Concise Gazeteer of Canada published by the Canadian Permanent Committee on Geographical Names spells it Macdonald, not MacDonald.
    And, yes, I know that MB is the abbreviation for Manitoba.

    Ian Macdonald
    Ian, sorry about that, I thought the question was Mac or Mc. I overlooked the question of the D or d. When the spelling of your own name is questioned it can be annoying. My name is Snyder and it is common for people to spell it Synder.

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    Default

    Anybody still interested in this subject?
    I have in my possession all the documents and pictures regarding the funeral of A.J.H. van der Haar.
    The RCAF also included a picture of a flying Harvard Mk2 with reference HN*B, taken from another plane flying next to it.
    The HN*B is occupied by 2 people. The one in front could be A.J.H. van der Haar but a real identification is virtually impossible.

    The bearers of the coffin were S/F's Aarts, de Jager, Folkers and Vegtel and S/P's Lestage and Morvan
    The visitor's register is signed by dozens of F/L's, F/O's and P/O's

    His father died 6 months prior to the accident and his mother (who was my god-mother) died in 1962.
    Since A.J.H. was an only child his mother left all the documents to me.

    A.J.H.

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