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Thread: GRO-listings

  1. #21
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    He is listed as John D Ashcroft 920530 and is listed as 143 Sqn.

    There is a Sgt J D Ashcroft listed Previously missing, now killed in Action in Flight november 1942.

    January 29th 1942 magazine lists hims as Missing, the page has a pencil mark on it.

    there is no other name in the two lists list that I can match to 9 Dec 1941.

    F/O Douglas A Smith 42899 143 Sqn is buried there also, dated 14 December 1941. GRO lists him as 143 Sqn also.
    Last edited by dennis_burke; 16th June 2010 at 13:16. Reason: added Smith
    Dennis Burke
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    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  2. #22
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    Ashcroft and Smith were discussed previously.

    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4379
    Dennis Burke
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    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  3. #23
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    Henk,

    Bit complicated, but...

    Sgts. Wallis and Ashcroft were to be lost over Tripoli three days later (on 9-12-1941, no explanation as to how!).

    See:
    Malta:The Hurricane Years1940-41
    Shores,C.,Cull,B & N.Malizia.
    London:Grub Street,1987
    p.345

    Now ...

    Sat 6 Dec 1941
    MIDDLE EAST
    Attack on Tripoli, Libya.
    89 Squadron, RAF (en route to Egypt; detachmebt at Malta)
    Beaufighter IF T4784 - believed to have taken off from Luqa or Ta Kali, Malta, was brought down over Libya at Misurata, 175km SSE* of Tripoli. Both pilot and navigator were captured, but the former was badly injured and died in a local hospital three days later. he was buried in the Misurata Cemetery, but later reinterred at Tripoli.
    Pilot: NZ403769 Flt Sgt Frederick Richard WALLIS, RNZAF - Age 28. 333hrs. 4th op.

    * Corrected to ESE, FYT3/550.

    Tue 9 Dec 1941
    MIDDLE EAST
    Flt Sgt F R WALLIS died at Misurata, Libya of injuries received when his aircraft was brought down on the 6th.

    See: FYT1/158-9.

    Could Ashcroft have been aboard Beaufighter T4784, and also died on 9-12-1941?

    A lot of if's and but's.

    We need Errol to identify Wallis' observer, if possible.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 16th June 2010 at 16:08.

  4. #24
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    Henk,

    Ashcroft, apparently not connected with death of Wallis. I contacted Errol Martyn, here is his reply:

    "Wallis's father had had some contact with his observer, but simply refers to him as Sergeant Charlie Weir, who became a PoW.

    If Weir remained a PoW until war's end he might have been 994579 Wt Off C G Weir, RAF or RAFVR (source HMSO 1945 list reprinted by J B Hayward & Son in 1990."

    Thanks Errol,

    Col.

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    Gents,
    Difficult...difficult !
    F/O Douglas A. SMITH - 42899 was from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, and perhaps our Canadian friends may meddle with the discussion. 143 Squadron never was posted in the Middle East/Mediterranean. I have a note that he might have been with 252 Squadron, at that time based at Idku in Egypt. Beaufighter losses for this unit around this date were T3250 missing from Derna 13-12-1941 and T4868 SOC 15-12-1941.
    Over to Canada...............
    Regards,
    Henk.

  6. #26
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    by the sounds of what Col posted above, was this Beaufighter grouping an ad hoc gathering of aircraft, not a proper Squadron or detachment of one. The Squadrons linked to them were their last official posting most lilkely. 143 Sqn had moved from Beaufighters to Blenheims that month, coming to Northern Ireland. So the crews may have been scattered around that time. 143 ORB might mention when Smith and Ashcroft left the unit.

    You probably ought not get too concerned with the units listed for this group of men by GRO and CWGC.

    Were these Beaufighters assigned to a particular unit while at Malta?
    Dennis Burke
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    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  7. #27
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    Old posting re Smith and Ashcroft from Brian Cull

    "Douglas Smith was one of two Beaufighter pilots of 252 Squadron (Smith ex-143 Squadron UK) detached to Malta in early December 1941 (nav/observer Sgt DJ Ashcroft). In the space of five days the crew claimed an SM81 and an SM84 over North Africa, but Smith's aircraft (sans Ashcroft) was shot down by ground fire circa 14 December. He was shot and killed by Italian troops while endeavouring to escape."

    This indicates that they were on same Sqn...

    Interesting he says circa 14th December and believes with out Ashcroft (sans). However, if we assume it was the same aircraft may indicate this happened on 9th and Smith died on 14. "He was shot and killed by Italian troops while endeavouring to escape." maybe after capture on 9th...????


    BTW also old post: 13/12/41

    Crew from No,272 Sqn but I think the aircraft was T3250 borrowed from No.252 Sqn

    "Extract from the book "The Armed Rovers", by Roy C Nesbit. ISBN 1-85310-517-1

    On 13 December 1941, Flg Off Graham W Morris of 272 Sqn RAF and his navigator, Sgt Harry W Hilton, failed to return from a patrol; the reason was not known, but both men lost their lives. On the same day Flg Off Charles Roman damaged a Do 24 and an Me 110, returning with a large hole in the tailplane of his Beaufighter."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL BRUGGY View Post
    Henk,

    Ashcroft, apparently not connected with death of Wallis. I contacted Errol Martyn, here is his reply:

    "Wallis's father had had some contact with his observer, but simply refers to him as Sergeant Charlie Weir, who became a PoW.

    If Weir remained a PoW until war's end he might have been 994579 Wt Off C G Weir, RAF or RAFVR (source HMSO 1945 list reprinted by J B Hayward & Son in 1990."

    Thanks Errol,

    Col.

    From the POW lists on this site


    18A 9447 Weir C G 994579 RAF
    Weir C T 33075 RAF

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulmcmillan View Post
    From the POW lists on this site


    18A 9447 Weir C G 994579 RAF
    Weir C T 33075 RAF
    C T Weir was an officer, therefore not the Beaufighter man.

    Errol

  10. #30
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    Further to Errol's message, C T Weir died whilst serving as an AVM in Washington in 1965

    Malcolm

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