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Thread: Crash sites

  1. #1
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    Default Crash sites

    Hi guys
    I recently watched the Timewatch program about Adrian Warburton. The German historian (I think his name was Grimminger) had a micro film listing crash sites of allied aircraft. The list was in date order and recorded aircraft type and crash location.

    Does anyone on this forum know where I can get hold of a copy of these micro films?
    Thanks in advance
    NM

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    Default

    It may be worth writing to Timewatch at the BBC.
    Happy hunting
    James

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    Just watched the Timewatch programme, The Mystery of the Missing Ace on Youtube. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of a very interesting programme, which I don't recall seeing when it was first broadcast.
    You are correct with the name, it was Hans Grimminger of Augsburg.
    A search on google comes up with some contact details for him.

    Martyn

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_m View Post
    Hi guys
    I recently watched the Timewatch program about Adrian Warburton. The German historian (I think his name was Grimminger) had a micro film listing crash sites of allied aircraft. The list was in date order and recorded aircraft type and crash location.

    Does anyone on this forum know where I can get hold of a copy of these micro films?
    Thanks in advance
    NM
    There's English-language transcriptions of German crash lists over at www.footnote.com . For example, here's the series for all of 1943 is here:

    http://www.footnote.com/browse.php#37|38633121

    You'll need to subscribe to see the images. Failing that, one can sign up for one free week, and download to one's heart's content. The server tends to respond slowly though, and the images are large, so be prepared to use a vast amount of time.

    The series for 1944 start here:

    http://www.footnote.com/browse.php#37|38647749

    however they go in monthly blocks. About 1,000 pages worth of information, IIRC.

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    Cheers guys, will check out footnote
    Many thanks
    NM

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    Hi Captain M,

    if you want duplicates of the original microfiches, they can be obtained from the National Archives and Records Administration in the US. The archival reference is:

    RG 92.9.2 Missing Air Crew Reports, Air Crashes by Date: 4 September 1939-8 May 1945 (Lists of Allied air crashes prepared from German sources, 1939-45), Records of the American Graves Registration Service (AGRS) Missing Air Crew Reports, National Archives Microfiche Publication M1380, fiches 5970-5984.

    Cheers

    Rod

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    Default you can try a look there, too

    @ Captain M

    The RAF bomber command from the January 6th 1945 (the Hanau raid) was also attacked by German Luftwaffe night fighters, IŽll known.
    Maybe, in the book from John Foreman and Simon W. Parry “Luftwaffe night fighter combat claims, 1939-1945” you can find some information about this raid and named Germans pilots, too.

    For an example you can follow this link:
    http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_AP4QkYQZY8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Luftw affe+night+fighter+combat+claims,+1939-1945&hl=en&ei=EXNPTNziM8K84gao7Yj9Bw&sa=X&oi=book_ result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepag e&q&f=false

    But, IŽm so sorry, the relevant side with the information about the German attacks on January 1945 is not appeared at this online version.
    Maybe, you can find this book in your local library. IŽll hope so!

    Good luck …

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    Default German claims 6-7 Jan 45

    Hi Willy,

    the details that you refer to concern two alledged claims by a Luftwaffe night fighter pilot on the night of 6-7 Jan 1945 that originate from a list of claims prepared by the late Emil Nonnenmacher, a former night fighter pilot who dedicated a considerable part of his post-war life to documenting the German night fighter force. Please be aware that for reasons best not gone into, this list, which became the basis for the 1945 claims details of the book you mentioned, deliberately contained a significant number of false claim entries (i.e. made up by the authors of the list). While this tactic was not intended to be a method of falsifying history, since the dealth of Nonnenmacher, copies of his archive have been sold and distrubuted all around the world, including his claims lists. Sadly, it appears that none or very few of the researchers who have obtained copies of these lists have also obtained the key to weeding out the falsified claims details.

    Having worked extensively with copies of these lists in conjunction with a large amount of surviving documentary material, it became apparent that something was 'not right' with some details in these lists, because there were claims that were not supported by or contradicted by surviving records. It has been confirmed within the last year or two that the reason for this was the deliberately falsified entries, as I've detailed above.

    For the 1945 period, a very general rule of thumb that applies in most, but not all cases, is that if the pilot concerned died before the end of the war, then there is a high chance that any claim for that pilot found for the 1945 period in the Nonnenmacher listing has no historical basis. Thus, the two claims given for a Maj. Paul Semrau for the night of 6-7 Jan 1945, IMHO, are false, and have absolutely no historical basis.

    Cheers

    Rod

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    Default

    Does the website footnote.com, now called fold3.com have reports for RCAF aircraft (looking for MZ629 and KB710)? I am on the site, but it seems to be just US MACR reports.

    Secondly, does:

    RG 92.9.2 Missing Air Crew Reports, Air Crashes by Date: 4 September 1939-8 May 1945 (Lists of Allied air crashes prepared from German sources, 1939-45), Records of the American Graves Registration Service (AGRS) Missing Air Crew Reports, National Archives Microfiche Publication M1380, fiches 5970-5984.

    contain RCAF information?

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    Default

    Hello,

    I have looked in the Luftgaukommando Index Files for the month of May 1944 (12-13). Nothing is mentioned about MZ629 and KB710.

    Only few details for 13/5 1944 about a Lancaster near Reningen. A 4 engined RAF Plane near Tolen. This is far away from my research area, so I do not know about the locations.

    Regards

    Finn Buch

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