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Thread: Short Stirling EE972 25/09/1944

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    Default Short Stirling EE972 25/09/1944

    Can anyone provide the details of the crew and flight details for this fated aircraft.

    Training flight from 1665 HCU

    Kind regards

    Chris.

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    Default Ee972

    Hi Chris

    Not in Chorley's HCU's volume for that date so presumably it wasn't lost then?

    Sorry

    Ian

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    Hi Chris/Ian,

    'The Stirling Story' by Michael Bowyer, states it was with 196 Sqn 15/8/43 OG-O then to 1665 HCU 1/4/44. It hit high ground, in cloud, Cheviots near Broaden on the 25/9/44.

    Chorley lists only one loss that day in HCU that of LK561 from 1661 HCU.

    Not much help I am afraid.

    Cheers,

    John.

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    Hi. Possibly the reason that it's not in Chorley's book is that at that time 1665 HCU had been transfered to 38 Group (Airborne Forces). The letter combination 'OG' was worn by Stirlings of 1665 HCU.
    Ian
    Last edited by Celt 22; 18th August 2010 at 22:27.

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    Hello,

    The following airmen are listed as dying 25/9/44 serving with 1665 HCU;

    Coronel, Paulus Senor AUS427502 RAAF F/Sgt
    McLackland, David Colville 1477936 RAFVR F/Sgt

    Source: http://www.raf38group.org/rohm

    Dave
    Last edited by Albion; 18th August 2010 at 22:42. Reason: Additional information

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    Thanks gents,

    My friend was one of the rescue team to this site (he is now 81) he was 15 at the time.
    Two were killed in the crash, one he believes was the bomb aimer.
    The Instructor pilot was RNAAF and the student pilot was RCAF, that is as much of the details of the actual crew he has (no names sorry)

    D. Waltons book lists Instructor F/O JH Verral (NZ) Killed
    Pupil pilot F/O EF Insley (RCAF) killed

    My friend is positve that the pilot and instrutor survived.

    but I am unsure

    Chris
    Last edited by Chris Davies; 18th August 2010 at 22:53.

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    Chris,

    The following, from Colin Hanson's 'By Such Deeds - Honours and Awards in the Royal New Zealand Air Force, 1923-1999', answers part of your question:

    VERRALL, Flight Lieutenant John Henry, DFC.
    NZ415044; Born London, England, 25 Jun 1921; RNZAF 6 Sep 1941 to 25 Sep 1945; Pilot.
    Later Sqn Ldr J H Verrall, DFC, RAF 22 Jan 1947 to 12 Jul 1976, 58842.
    Citation Distinguished Flying Cross (16 Nov 1943): [214 Sqn RAF (Stirling)] A determined and skilful captain of aircraft Pilot Officer Verrall has successfully attacked some of the enemy’s most heavily defended targets always displaying the greatest determination to press home his attacks. On two occasions he cleverly out-manoeuvred enemy night fighters, without any damage to his aircraft.
    Following his tour with 214 Sqn Flight Lieutenant Verrall served as an instructor with 1665 HCU RAF, also taking part in the airborne operations associated with the British Army crossing of the Rhine.
    Died Shrewsbury, England, 18 Mar 1988.

    Errol

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    Hi Chris, here is the ORB entry:
    "25/9/44
    Stirling aircraft EE972 piloted by F/O J G VERRALL, NZ415044 was involved in a flying accident. Two members of the crew were killed and the remainder injured. Owing to the condition of the pilot no report on the cause of the accident is yet available. Available information suggests that the aircraft struck a hill whilst cloud flying in the neighbourhood of the Cheviots. An investigation is being held."

    RAF Tilstock ORB adds:
    "Stirling III aircraft EE932 crashed on Cheviots Q U 402413. Two of crew killed. The aircraft was flying in low cloud when accident happened."

    He's mentioned a few times if you google him as he won the DFC with 214 Squadron in November 1943 and definitely survived the war.

    Hope that adds a little more.

    Cheers, Tom

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    Hello,

    I have the following crew list in my file on AUS427502 F/Sgt Paulus Senor CORONEL RAAF:

    NZ415044 F/O (Pilot) John Henry VERRALL DFC RNZAF - Injured
    - - ? - - F/O (Pupil Pilot) E F INSLEY RCAF - Injured (Ser. Injured 11-5-1945 - 190 Sqn.)
    AUS427502 F/Sgt (Nav./B) Paulus Senor CORONEL RAAF +
    - - ? - - Sgt (Flt. Eng.) D C BISGROVE - Injured
    - - ? - - Sgt (Flt. Eng.) T K HATFIELD - Injured
    1477936 F/Sgt (Air Bomber) David Colville McLACKLAND RAFVR +
    R/138525 WO2 (W.Op./Air Gnr.) Joseph Arthur HAY RCAF - Injured (+ 11-5-1945 - 190 Sqn.)
    1180034 W/O (Air Gnr.) Peter Anthony ALLEN RAFVR - Died of Injuries 29-9-44
    - - ? - - Sgt (Air Gnr.) A WILLIAMS - Injured

    The list is dated 29-11-05, but no source. (note on back says ACIADB???)

    All the above needs confirmation.

    Coronel has no A705 Casualty File at the NAA (his A9301 is digitised). Alan Storr is of no help at all on this one, he can't even provide a type or serial (Storr: Vol.23. Conversion Units: p.255 of 508).

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 19th August 2010 at 13:02.

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    Default Verrall

    Hi Chris

    I've listed all of 214's wartime ops so if it's relevant I can do you a list of Verrall's earlier flying with them.

    Cheers

    Ian

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