Bomber Command loss queries 23-24 September 1943

[Theo Boiten]

Dear all,

I am currently working on new information re. the German Nachtjagd claims on 23-24 September 1943, and on matching this info to Bomber Command losses during the raid on Mannheim. I would be most grateful to receive any information about the following three losses (location of crash, time of crash, cause of loss; I do have the information on the crews of these a/c):

-419 Squadron Halifax JD457
-428 Squadron Halifax EB207
-467 Squadron Lancaster EE135

Cheers & thanks, Theo

[Bill Walker]

From an earlier thread here (I think) EB207 was reported as coming down between Kotterichen and Uersfeld.

[Henk Welting]

Theo,
I've EE135 at Ober-/Unteraltertheim, 10 km SW of Würzburg.
Regards,
Henk.

[Theo Boiten]

good evening Henk and Bill,

Cheers & thanks for your quick and useful info!

Theo

[coastalchris]

My uncle, Sgt Peter Flower was one of the crew on Halifax EB207. I have some details of the nature and location of the crash. I realize that you will need to be assured of the reliability of the information so I have shown my sources. Now that I have retired, I hope to gather more information on my uncle's last flight.



Crash site: Kotterichen, Germany

Source 1. Letter dated 09 March 1949, from the Air Ministry, addressed to Peter’s father (my grandfather).

Source 2: Letter dated 17 July 2003, from the Air Historical Branch (RAF) MOD, addressed to me.





Cause and Date of Crash: Shot down by Oblt. Heinz-Martin Hadeball, 3./NJG 6, 10km S.W. Mayen at 5,400m at 22.39hrs on the 23 September 1943.

The raid took place on the night of 23-24/09/1943 and initially the date of death was assumed to have been on the 24th. However, the sources point towards the crash being on the 23rd, presumably on their way to Manheim (never having reached the target).

Source 1: Tony Woods site recording Luftwaffe Fighter Claims. (although I obtained this in 2003, I am having difficulty accessing the site now). This quoted the original source as, “Luftwaffe Fighter Claims are extracted from BA-MA 35-mm. micro-films” The particular entry is quoted as, “Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr 23”. There appear to only have been 2 crashes in this area throughout the war and only one on that night.

A war crash site historian has told me that Hadeball was flying Messerschmitt Bf 110G-4 but I have yet to verify this.

[coastalchris]

My uncle, Sgt Peter Flower was one of the crew on Halifax EB207. I have some details of the nature and location of the crash. I realize that you will need to be assured of the reliability of the information so I have shown my sources. Now that I have retired, I hope to gather more information on my uncle's last flight.



Crash site: Kotterichen, Germany

Source 1. Letter dated 09 March 1949, from the Air Ministry, addressed to Peter’s father (my grandfather).

Source 2: Letter dated 17 July 2003, from the Air Historical Branch (RAF) MOD, addressed to me.





Cause and Date of Crash: Shot down by Oblt. Heinz-Martin Hadeball, 3./NJG 6, 10km S.W. Mayen at 5,400m at 22.39hrs on the 23 September 1943.

The raid took place on the night of 23-24/09/1943 and initially the date of death was assumed to have been on the 24th. However, the sources point towards the crash being on the 23rd, presumably on their way to Manheim (never having reached the target).

Source 1: Tony Woods site recording Luftwaffe Fighter Claims. (although I obtained this in 2003, I am having difficulty accessing the site now). This quoted the original source as, “Luftwaffe Fighter Claims are extracted from BA-MA 35-mm. micro-films” The particular entry is quoted as, “Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr 23”. There appear to only have been 2 crashes in this area throughout the war and only one on that night.

A war crash site historian has told me that Hadeball was flying Messerschmitt Bf 110G-4 but I have yet to verify this.