Halifax LW233 Impact Site/Time

[Resmoroh]

Does any one know where and when Halifax LW233 impacted on 21/22 Jan 44? And does anyone know the usual/average cruising speed of a fully loaded Halifax (a) outbound, and (b) on the return leg?
Rgds
Peter Davies

[Resmoroh]

OK, so no takers for my original request. I did think that it was relatively simple - but it appears not so.
So let's attack the problem from the other end. Does anyone have the route and target(s) for the raid on Magdeburg on the night of 21/22 Jan 44? 77 Sqn and Elvington were amongst the Units/Bases involved!
Any takers on this one?
Rgds
Peter Davies

[jossleclercq]

Hello Peter,

Apart from the route flown by the main force for that raid, I think a useful source of information would be the PoW questionnaires of the six survivors of the crew : I've checked what I had in stock, in case of, but unfortunately none of them.

The route to Magdeburg was : 54°30N 06°40E - 53°20N 09°31E - 52°47N 12°00E - MAGDEBURG - 51°56N 11°18E - 53°17 N 09°31E - 54°30N 06°40E

Planned time of attack was 23:00-23:18.


Joss

[Resmoroh]

Joss,
Absolutely brilliant - mni tks.
I am pursuing this one on behalf of NZ NoK. Tomorrow I will plot the route, and work out times based on probable average speeds (+/- the Met winds!!). Half-remembered memories of, now, very old, and frail, family members are leading to some inaccuracies!! We need to put - as far as we are able - the record straight.
It would seem that after interception the crew of this a/c all abandoned it to the parachute (except the Skipper). The Captain stayed with it to let the crew jump (many others like him!). He was the only KIA casualty from that a/c. He has No Known Grave! I suspect it was still carrying its full bomb load when it hit the deck at high speed. The pilot was, probably, vapourised in a millisecond!
"No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his friends" - particularly at this time in November!! Makes one realise how lucky we, who survived, are!!
Joss, thanks again!
Peter Davies

[JohnGardner]

Joss,
Absolutely brilliant - mni tks.
I am pursuing this one on behalf of NZ NoK. Tomorrow I will plot the route, and work out times based on probable average speeds (+/- the Met winds!!). Half-remembered memories of, now, very old, and frail, family members are leading to some inaccuracies!! We need to put - as far as we are able - the record straight.
It would seem that after interception the crew of this a/c all abandoned it to the parachute (except the Skipper). The Captain stayed with it to let the crew jump (many others like him!). He was the only KIA casualty from that a/c. He has No Known Grave! I suspect it was still carrying its full bomb load when it hit the deck at high speed. The pilot was, probably, vapourised in a millisecond!
"No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his friends" - particularly at this time in November!! Makes one realise how lucky we, who survived, are!!
Joss, thanks again!
Peter Davies

Good evening Peter
peter garlette was my great uncle and it would be nice to find out the crash site , and any information I can
find out.
Yours greatfully
john Gardner ( John.gardner@gmx.co.uk)

[jossleclercq]

Hello John

I don't know where you are, but a track to check for a rough location of the crash site area would be to check all the PoW questionnaires which are held in the National Archives in Kew. I can only help with Donald Frank Tittley, as I've copied the first page, but this one will be of no use as he didn't give the place of capture. One of the people in charge of checking the questionnaires has added an interrogation mark in red where location should have been noted. I haven't copied pages 2 and 3 as I was not interested particularly in this report, I was looking for someone else in the same volume.
If you are near London, it might pay to get to Kew when things will be easier, and check these PoW questionnaires in the WO344 series.

Here are the references at Kew (some with direct links, other just the reference) :
Sgt G.B. GREENFIELD : WO 344/125/2
P/O D. COOKE : https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C9075710
Sgt A. BELLENGER : WO 344/24/2
Sgt L.D. THOMAS : https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C9121411
Sgt F.T. LEWIS : https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C9103894
F/Sgt D.F. TITTLEY : WO 344/319/2

HTH

Joss

[JohnGardner]

Hello John

I don't know where you are, but a track to check for a rough location of the crash site area would be to check all the PoW questionnaires which are held in the National Archives in Kew. I can only help with Donald Frank Tittley, as I've copied the first page, but this one will be of no use as he didn't give the place of capture. One of the people in charge of checking the questionnaires has added an interrogation mark in red where location should have been noted. I haven't copied pages 2 and 3 as I was not interested particularly in this report, I was looking for someone else in the same volume.
If you are near London, it might pay to get to Kew when things will be easier, and check these PoW questionnaires in the WO344 series.

Here are the references at Kew (some with direct links, other just the reference) :
Sgt G.B. GREENFIELD : WO 344/125/2
P/O D. COOKE : https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C9075710
Sgt A. BELLENGER : WO 344/24/2
Sgt L.D. THOMAS : https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C9121411
Sgt F.T. LEWIS : https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C9103894
F/Sgt D.F. TITTLEY : WO 344/319/2

HTH

Joss

Good evening joss
thank you for your reply , I do live in south London and will definitely get to Kew once I can .
i will ask the relivent questions. Thanks again for your speedy response and help .
if there's anything I can help with do feel free to ask.
Ill let you know my findings.
John.