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Thread: 1920s Meteorological Section photo

  1. #61
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    Default

    Just in case anyone was thinking of following Ann's suggestion about finding Browning's obituary, I've already asked Herefordshire Library Service for assistance.

    Brian

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    Results of a day at Kew looking at background of Lance Browning and Herbert Broughall.

    AIR 23/457 War Diary Jan 1923 (Iraq) [series starts Jan 1923]
    Change of Sdn Met Officer. Flt Lt Oxland handed this duty on 10/01/23 to Flt Lt L H Browning MC DFC who in turn handed over to Flt Lt A E Gendle OBE on the latter’s arrival on 27/01/23
    General Routine Orders No 4 24/01/23 (AM posting list 235 14/12/22)
    From HQ Iraq Command for temporary duty with effect 20/11/22 [[corrected GRO No 7 to 18/10/22]] F/O Lance Harold Browning MC DFC
    AM posting list 242 29/12/22. To HQ Iraq Command on ceasing to be attached to 8 Squadron, with effect 27/11/22 F/O Lance Harold Browning MC DFC

    AIR 23/458 War Diary Feb 1923 (Iraq)
    Kirkuk Met Station opening delayed by Flt Lt Browning’s absence on special reconnaissance work. Hoped to get station working in March

    AIR 23/459 War Diary Mar 1923 (Iraq)
    General Routine Orders No 4 From 70 squadron (Iraq Command) to 55 Squadron (Iraq Command) 18/11/22 for flying duties F/O Herbert Seton Broughall MC

    AIR 23/460 War Diary Apl 1923 (Iraq)
    Met report signed by Gendle, as usual

    AIR 23/461 War Diary May 1923 (Iraq)
    Flt Lt Browning proceeded by road from Baghdad en route Cairo 07/05/23. Arrived Ramadi 09/05/23. Left Ramadi 10/05/23 and struck off strength of RAF Iraq with Effect 10/05/23
    Met stations are: Hinaidi Kirkuk Mosul Ramadi Shaibah

    AIR 27/32 3 Squadron ORB
    04/01/26 Flt Lt Lance Harold Browning MC DFC posted to this Squadron from RAF Depot
    01/03/26 With P/O Mackenzie to Farnborough in co-operation with 1st AA Searchlight Battery, Blackdown and returned Upavon 05/03/26
    02/05/26 General Strike With P/O McMillan and Kellett plus 20 airmen, to Cardiff, attached Welch Regimental Depot. To keep open emergency landing ground. Returned 18/05/26
    13/06/26 – 19/06/26 Aldershot Torchlight Tattoo. Based at Farnborough, Returned 20/06/26
    07/02/27 Part of supporting party to funeral of P/O Lewis (flying accident J7736) Senny Bridge, Swansea
    10/03/27 Single Seater Fighter Race (HQ Fighting Area) 100 miles in 2 laps
    1st F/O Cranswick MC J8292
    2nd Flt Lt Browning MC DFC J7732
    3rd P/O Kellett J7725
    24/04/28 Attended conference at Tidworth with Sdn Ldr Digby Johnson re army co-operation
    22/05/28 Attended an Armoured Force staff exercise at Old Sarum with Sdn Ldr Digby Johnson
    02/08/27 Flt Lt Lance Harold Browning was killed at Holbeach Ranges whilst carrying out air firing as a result of the failure of a wing of his Woodcock machine. The funeral took place at Whitchurch, Herefordshire on 05/08/28
    03/08/28 Instructions from HQ Fighting Area that owing to the failure of the wing of the aircraft flown by Flt Lt Browning, and other similar failures, on no account should this type of machine be flown at a speed exceeding 130mph
    21/08/28 Signal from HQ Fighting Area to the effect that flying of Woodcock aircraft should cease forthwith
    [August and September 1928 The squadron re-equipped with Gloster Gamecock]

    AIR 76 RAF Officers to 1918 no papers for Broughall nor Browning

    Air Force List
    Checked 1919 March 1920 Jan, details of postings start 1920 Aug
    1920 Aug Broughall RAF Depot
    Browning Inspector of Recruiting
    1921 Jan Broughall RAF Depot
    Browning Inspector of Recruiting
    1922 Jan Broughall 70 Sdn Egypt
    Browning Iraq
    1923 Jan Broughall 70 Sdn Iraq
    Browning Tech duties (Met) 13/10/21
    1924 Jan Broughall 216 Sdn Heliopolis
    Browning RAF Middle East Cairo (Met) 10/05/23
    1925 Jan Broughall 4 FTS Abu Sueir
    Browning RAF Middle East HQ Cairo (Met) 10/05/23
    1925 Jan Broughall 207 Squadron Eastchurch
    Browning RAF Depot

  3. #63
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    Default Lance Browning

    Hi,

    I've had a reply to my e mails from the posters of family trees on Rootsweb. The ladies in question are going to dig around and ask relations and see if anyone might know anything. I have given them the link to this thread and also sent the picture of Browning that David sent me. Just waiting now to see if they can help confrim whether or not it is Browning, however, they both have limited info on him so they may not be able to find out.

    Regards,

    Ann

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    About four months ago Dave started this thread, seeking help in the identfication of the people in the photograph at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,287542.0.html, and the location.

    One of my colleagues has been working hard behind the scenes and has identified the Flt Lt as Herbert Seton Broughall, who died as Gp Capt Broughall (Rtd) on 18 April 1955 at Menai on Anglesey. The identification was made by his great-nephew. The photo could well have been taken at Abu Sueir in Egypt.

    He had a daughter, Jane Felicity Strathy Broughall who married David A Shawyer in 1951; we've been unable to find a death certificate for either of them, which suggests they are still alive (about 80), but an attempt is being made to trace them in the hope there may be an annotated copy of the photograph.

    The name 'Shawyer' is quite unusual, most seeming to live in the southern counties, but the telephone directory has yet to provide a hit.

    If anyone has any ideas I'd be grateful to hear them.

    Brian

  5. #65
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    Default Mystery photo

    Oh, well done Brian, I was only thinking about this the other day. It appears that he was born in Canada, so perhaps Hugh/Chris/Floyd can provide further info on him. It appears that he is mentioned in the book below:
    For Your Tomorrow: Canadians and the Burma Campaign, 1941-1945 by Robert Farquharson
    See all pages with references to "Seton Broughall".
    Excerpt - on Page 41: " ... C. Fields" greeted them in an unmistakably Canadian accent. This was Group Captain Herbert Seton Broughall, born at Toronto in 1898 of a long and proud military line and a strong Canadian heritage. ...

    Regards,

    Ann

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    Default Shawyer

    Hi Brian,

    It would appear that Jane died in 1983 and had 3 children, James, Annabel and Penelope. They appear to have been living in Oxfordshire. The Sue Ryder Home at Nettlebed is mentioned for donations to be given to.

    Regards,

    Ann
    Last edited by Ann Sadler; 12th June 2008 at 09:12. Reason: spelling!!

  7. #67
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    I had a feeling you would come up with the answer, Ann - very many thanks. I hasten to add the identification had nothing to do with me, much as I'd like to take the credit. My colleague has quite a lot of detail about Broughall's life and career, but it's this very last bit that is proving elusive.

    Thank you again

    Brian

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    Default Broughall

    Hi Brian,

    He is listed in Hugh's database of awards to Canadians. I have a feeling that I may have got some of the possibly relevants AIR2 files copied and sent to Hugh and he may have updated/further info. This is what I found on Hugh's database:
    BROUGHALL, Flying Officer Herbert Seton - Order of St.Anne, 3rd Class, with Swords (White Russia) - awarded as per unknown date and authority; listed by Ray Brough, White Russian Awards to British and Commonwealth Servicemen During the Allied Intervention in Russia 1918-1920 (London, Tom Donovan Publishing, 1991), which spells name "Broughal". Home in Toronto and attended Upper Canada College. Joined British Army in England, 1915; awarded Military Cross, London Gazette dated 22 September 1916 for service with Royal Sussex Regiment (first time under fire). To RNAS, 3 December 1916. With No.10 (N) Squadron, 7 August to 21 September 1917. Shot down on latter date (or 22nd) and became POW. Repatriated in December 1918; sent to Russia, April 1919 (No.47 Squadron). Later awarded Distinguished Flying Cross as per London Gazette dated 11 June 1924 "for distinguished service rendered during operations in Kurdistan between 15th February and 19th June 1923." Flight of 29 November 1923 reports him as going to No.216 Squadron, 14 October 1923. Aeroplane of 3 February 1932 reports him going to No.22 Squadron, 8 January 1932. Remained in RAF and rose to Group Captain. Barker once asked that he be seconded to RCAF.



    BROUGHALL, Flying Officer Herbert Seton - Order of St.Stanislaus, 3rd Class, with Swords (White Russia) - awarded as per unknown date and authority; listed by Ray Brough, White Russian Awards to British and Commonwealth Servicemen During the Allied Intervention in Russia 1918-1920 (London, Tom Donovan Publishing, 1991) which spells name "Broughal".
    .

    I was in touch with some distant relatives of Browning's, so I will contact them and say that the photo is not of him.
    By the way, looking at Hugh's info, he doesn't appear to have had any Met connections, have you worked out why he appears to be at a Met station in this photo?

    Regards,

    Ann

  9. #69
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    Default Seton/Seaton

    A possible variation of spelling his second forename for those intending to do further research.

    The Toronto "Globe" reported on 17 July 1918 that Lieut. Seaton Broughill was one of the tennis double's champions during a recent match at Blankenburg-Nark prison camp.

    Of interest to our Canadian posters, the other doubles champ was a fellow well known to many of us, Lieut. Conn Smythe.

    Cheers, Ken

  10. #70
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    Many thanks Ann, but just to add to what has gone before and to bring everyone up to date.

    The credit for identifying the Flt Lt and location of the photo belongs solely to Malcolm Walker, effectively the archivist of the Royal Meteorological Society. He and his good lady have put a tremendous amount of work in chasing this down, and the latest news is that they have found some of Broughall's great-grandchildren.

    Hugh's database is missing some of Broughall's movements during the 1920s, including two of interest in this story; Broughall was transferred to No 4 FTS, Abu Sueir, on 16.8.24 and he returned to the UK wef 25.3.25. 4 FTS was involved in making meteorological ascents during the early 1920s, and especially during this period, so that is the possible meteorological connection. It is also possible that he might have had responsibility for the Abu Sueir meteorological office as a secondary duty (at the time meteorological offices at RAF stations overseas were manned by men of the RAF Meteorological Service).

    The two dates are important because if the 4 FTS connection is correct then the photograph has to date to that time frame.

    Malcolm has already contacted the Canadian branch of the family, but it has no information that helps with this photograph.

    Brian

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