Wellington HZ637

[Amrit]

Thank you Dennis and Dave.

There doesn't appear to be any casualties on the ground though Hayborough is only a mile or so from the rail line, and there are two civilians listed for this date, both noted as "at Hayborough"

cheers
A

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello Amrit & Others,

This subject was discussed some time back: http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5268

I gave the crew of Anson I DJ239, and was working on Wellington XIII HZ637. A little later this evening I will be posting more information on this incident.

In the meantime, here is the crew of the Anson once again:

J/16366 P/O (Pilot) Alexander Iver MacRAE RCAF +
1382991 Sgt (Nav.) Geoffrey Basil Temple WYMER +
R/144951 F/Sgt (Nav.) Michael Henry CORNELL RCAF +
1027819 Sgt (W.Op./Air Gnr.) Thomas GREEN +
AUS421474 Sgt (W.Op./Air Gnr.) John Thomas SUTHERLAND RAAF +

More later,

Col.

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello once again,

Adrian Read, a fellow-Forumite, has kindly done a bit of legwork for me at the NAA in Canberra. He has come up with the following from the A705 of, AUS421474 John Thomas SUTHERLAND RAAF.

The accident occurred at 3:15 p.m., 31 May, 1943, east of Maryport, Cumberland.

The Anson crew , as given by me in the previous post.

The Wellington Crew (Well, here is what the signal says, precisely).

(D) 44751 F/LT. W.J.CALVER, MR.K.C.GURDLER. MR.C.P.NEAVE. MR.A.WALSH (CIVILIANS) ALL KILLED
(E) SUTHERLAND GREEN CORNELL RAF STATION SILLOCH
(G) COLLISION IN AIR ACCIDENTS NO

My reading of this is, that Gurdler, Neave and Walsh, were aboard HZ637.

What they were doing aboard HZ637, is anybody's guess!

Other opinions welcomed.

Thanks, once again Adrian.

Col.

[dennis_burke]

Charles Neave is located on CWGC as Angus county, Scotland. There is no one else for that date in that district on CWGC.

its probably a big co-incidence but I'm finding a Charles Neave in Ancestry.com as a wireless operator on ships in the 1917-1920 period. He was born around the right time and came from Forfar in Scotland.

I went back to the death index and Welsh is also age 42, similar age as Neave. I find a matching name again on a ship in 1933 for a Scotish Adam Welsh who was a WTO onboard, I take that to be wirelesss telegraphy officer or similar.

The Dumfries Museum might have some answers, they breifly mention the crash as two Ansons:
http://www.dumfriesaviationmuseum.com/rafdumfries.htm

http://www.dumfriesaviationmuseum.com

[COL BRUGGY]

G'day Dennis,

It should be noted, that 10(O)AFU, and 18MU, were both primarily based at Dumfries. Presumably, you have the contact address of the D&GAM. Looks like another sleepless night!

Col.

[Ross_McNeill]

You all may like to look at these threads before duplicating research carried out by the relatives.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,386293.0.html

Regards
Ross

[Amrit]

Hi Ross

thats where I first saw the query - and the coincidence of the crash so close to the death of the two civilians made me wonder whether there was any connection, and whether they had been hit by debris etc

A

[Ross_McNeill]

Hi Amrit,

Guessed so and thought that it was a fine hunch that paid off well with a host of new material.

The latest turn here started to repeat work carried out by others so I thought it time to pool the threads.

Cheers
Ross

[Amrit]

Well chaps, you have all done me proud. A small hunch has turned up all the info I could hope for.

Thank you all. It's been fun watching all those little cogs turning :)

A

[jobarnes]

I just wanted to come here and say Thank you very much for the information on my great grandfather MR CP Neave. We knew nothing about what happened to him after his youngest child was born in 1936 until we found him on CWGC about 6 weeks ago, as there is no-one now alive who remembers him. My dad wasn't born until mid 50's

Can I ask a couple of questions:-

1) what does the D) E) G) mean before the names in the post below - where it names them

i.e D) then the list of names?

2) Dumfries have said 2 ansons crashed but surely thats another crash isn't it ?

Any further info anyone has at all will be greatfully appreciated.
Thanks again
Jobarnes