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First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?

First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: PF (Guest)
Time Stamp:
19:55:21 Wednesday, March 9, 2005
Post:
Who was first RAF Fatality after 1 September 1939?


RE: First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: Alan Smith (Guest)
Time Stamp:
20:26:51 Wednesday, March 9, 2005
Post:
PF,

I would suggest that it was P/O Leech of 611 Sqdn who was killed on 2 September 1939 when Spitfire K9985 flew into the ground out of cloud while on a navex 5 miles S of Wattisham.

If you are looking for the first deaths after the outbreak of war, on 3 September a Westland Wallace K6028 of 1 AOS, on a ferry flight to 9 AOS flew into hills in bad visibility at Benachie, near Aberdeen two members of the crew being killed. I do not know the crew but Pilot Officer Ellard Alexander Cummings was killed on this date. Perhaps others will be able to give crew details.

Also killed on 3 September was Pilot Officer J Isaacs of 600 when Blenheim 1 L1164 dived into the ground at The Burrows, Hendon while on practice approaches.

The information comes largely from Air Britain records and the CWGC site.

Hope this helps,

Regards, Alan.



RE: First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: Henk Welting (Guest)
Time Stamp:
11:31:16 Tuesday, September 13, 2005
Post:
Hi Alan,

Do you have first name, servicenumber and burialground for P/O LEECH ?

Regards,

Henk.


RE: First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: Henk Welting (Guest)
Time Stamp:
11:47:53 Tuesday, September 13, 2005
Post:
Hi Alan,

Furthermore to losses 3-9-1939:

Les Allison has in his "They Shall Grow Not Old" on page 158 for Ellard CUMMINGS (age 21):

15th October 1939 - Hurricane a/c failed to return from operations - buried Aberdeen Grove Cemetery, Newhills, Scotland.

For 3 & 4-9-1939 I've on file (and unaccounted for):

3-9-1939:

AC2 Frank A. BOWYER - 641028 - Bebington Cem. Cheshire

AC1 George W. HART - 350110 - Middlesbrough (Linthorpe) Cem. Yorkshire

AC1 Philip H. WARREN - 561954 - Plymouth (Weston Mill) Cem. Devon

LAC Alexander R.R. STEWART - 521250 - Paisley (Hawkhead) Cem. Renfrewshire

4-9-1939:

AC2 T. THOMSON - 621153 - 149 Sqdn - Winchburgh Cem. Kirkliston, West Lothian

AC1 John J. WALSH - 233835 - Berwick-upon-Tweed Cem. Northumberland.

Interested to know what caused the death of these airmen.

Regards,

Henk.


RE: First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: Don Clark (Guest)
Time Stamp:
20:39:45 Wednesday, March 9, 2005
Post:
A curious form of query.

Let us presume you mean killed in action or at least killed on air operations, rather than died of illness.

One wonders too at the significance of the date selected.

If you are referring to the outbreak of war, the first RAF raid of the war was that undetaken by Blenheim IVs of 139, 110 and 107 Squadrons against the Kreigsmarine fleet at Schillig Roads on 4 Sep 1939, the morning after Britain's declaration of war on 3 Sep 1939.

Of the 15 a/c setting out, 10 (5 from each of 107 and 110 Sqns) actually attacked the target. Of these, N6199 of 110 Squadron is recorded as the first Bomber Command loss of World War II. the crew was Pilot: F/O H Emden, with Sgt R Grossey (an Observer), Sgt S McK Otty and AC R Evans. Which of these men was the first to die is not of course recorded. In the course of this operation, five aircraft were lost with their crews.

Perhaps you will forgive me making two observations. Firstly, your post is so tersely written it is open to misinterpretation (and this seems to be a common feature of your posts). Secondly,

this topic could easily be seen as in questionable taste.


RE: First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: errol.martyn@xtra.co.nz (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:03:24 Wednesday, March 9, 2005
Post:
Don,

Agree with your last para.

Personally, when someone on the forum cannot not be bothered with the courtesy of posting their name (either in the post or under profile) it does not encourage me to respond. Their loss, not mine.

Errol


RE: First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: Fairlop
Time Stamp:
07:28:20 Saturday, April 9, 2005
Post:
Hi,

With tragic irony P/O Emden crashed into heavy cruiser Emden anchored in Wilhelmshaven. A piece of his Blenheim%B4s propeller is on view in the Kriegsmarine museum in Laboe close to Kiel.

Regards,

Michal


RE: First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: Franek Grabowski (Guest)
Time Stamp:
18:33:36 Friday, December 9, 2005
Post:
>One wonders too at the significance

>of the date selected.

Well, the war started at the date, though Britain joined it two days later.

Franek


RE: First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: Ken MacLean (Guest)
Time Stamp:
20:55:44 Wednesday, March 9, 2005
Post:
The RAF Museum website provides the following:

3 September

Pilot Officer John Noel Isaac of No.600 Squadron becomes the first Briton to die in the Second World War when his Bristol Blenheim crashes into Heading Street in Hendon at 1250hrs, 1 hour 50 minutes after the British declaration of war.

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/milestones-of-flight/british_military/1939_2.html


RE: First RAF Fatality after 1-September 1939?
Author: Don Clark (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:31:01 Wednesday, March 9, 2005
Post:
From Warner:

3 Sep 1939 L1164 600 Squadorn RAuxAF. Mark IF stalled during single-engine approach to Hendon and crashed at the Burrooughs, Hendon, P/O John Isaacs killed.

Poor chap. Engine-out operations in a Blenheim were always fraught. Perhaps we should give thanks, in that it appears he may have been alone in the aircraft from Warner's form of words, and one hopes no civilian casualties either.

From the Commonwealth War Graves Commission:

ISAAC, JOHN NOEL LAUGHTON

Initials: J N L

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Pilot Officer

Regiment: Royal Air Force

Unit Text: 600 Sqdn.

Age: 28

Date of Death: 03/09/1939

Service No: 90721

Additional information: Son of Wilfrid John and Rosalind Mary Isaac, of Cardiff. B.A. (Oxon.); Solicitor.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 2.

Cemetery: GOLDERS GREEN CREMATORIUM

http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/certificate.aspx?casualty=2430898

Remembered with honour


sic:
Author: Don Clark (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:32:19 Wednesday, March 9, 2005
Post:
3 Sep 1939 L1164 600 Squadron RAuxAF. Mark IF stalled during single-engine approach to Hendon and crashed at The Burroughs, Hendon, P/O John Isaacs killed.


RE: sic:
Author: Arculus
Time Stamp:
02:01:36 Saturday, April 9, 2005
Post:
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 04-Sep-05 AT 02:02 AM (GMT)[/font][p]P.F.

As Chad would have said years ago "Wot, Not Even A Thank you" !

We are waiting....

Arthur 'Digger' Arculus



RE: sic:
Author: P.F. (Guest)
Time Stamp:
19:15:01 Saturday, April 9, 2005
Post:
Thanks


RE: sic:
Author: Tony Kearns (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:10:34 Saturday, April 9, 2005
Post:
Hooray!!!!

Tony K