No. 2 Flying Training School, RAF Digby, 1935-1936

[namrondooh]

What aircraft did No. 2 Flying Training School, RAF Digby, Lincolnshire use in 1935 - 1936?
Norman

[jossleclercq]

Hello Norman,

From "Flying Training and Support Unit of the RAF" : [...] reformed 1.10.34 in No. 23 Group at Digby with Harts, Furies and Tutors ; 1936 Audaxes added ; 7.9.37 Brize Norton ; 8.39 establishment 26 Harvard, 38 Oxford

Hope this helps

Joss

[namrondooh]

Thank you Joss, exactly what I wanted.

Does the book say how long the course was - from scratch to pilot?

Norman

[jossleclercq]

Hello Norman,

No, that's not the kind of information given by the book. It's about name of units, locations, dates, equipment and codes.

I'm sure another forumite will come "trumps up" with the answer you're seeking. I've already seen it somewhere, but it was in wartime so not relevant in peace time. The pilot u/t would go through EFTS / ERFTS before being posted to FTS / later SFTS, and I'd suggest it would take about 6 months for the two courses.

Regards

Joss

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Norman and Joss

In 1935-36 all the training would have taken place at Digby, with the student undertaking the Ab Initio (Elementary) phase on the Tutor before completing the Advanced phase on Harts and Furies. The 'operational' phase of the training would be undertaken once posted to a squadron.

E & RFTSs were introduced initially to train VR personnel not regulars.

Malcolm

[David Duxbury]

Just a brief comment on previouys post, but I am fairly certain that the RAF FTS syllabus in 1935/36 was broken into two distinct stages - Intermediate and Advanced (usually abbreviated to ITS and ATS, for Intermediate and Advanced Traininng Squadrons). Although this type of syallabus was abandoned by RAF (and RCAF) in 1940 or thereabouts, the RNZAF and RAAF maintained this form of organisation through to near the end of WW2. I hesitate to provide respective lengths of the EFTS, ITS, ATS stages in the mid-1930s, but each was probably somewhat longer then the abbreviated WW2 equivalents.
David D

[malcolm_raf]

prior to 1938 the RAF did not have any EFTSs after initial officer training at the RAF Depot (usually two weeks), trainees went straight to a FTS.

Malcolm

[namrondooh]

Hello Joss,
Thank you for the information
Norman

Hello David,
Thank you for the information.
Norman

Hello Malcolm,
Would the RAF Depot at Uxbridge be the very first unit a Canadian volunteering to join the RAF have been posted to? Could you give me an idea of the course content?
Norman

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Norman

I don't have an exact answer but would suspect it would include fitting out for uniforms, basic drill, saluting etc, mess etiquette, RAF administration procedures, Air Force Law, duties and responsibilities of an officer just to mention a few.

Malcolm

[namrondooh]

Hello Malcolm,

Thanks for the information. Alas, I'm still not clear about the beginning of training for this Canadian volunteer seeking to be a GD pilot on a short commission. I would imagine he was interviewed somewhere in Canada before sailing to England and must have volunteered in Canada. I thought my last question about the start of training was going to bring a brief on initial flying training. I realise now, or rather assume (dangerous) that there was no flying at Uxbridge? I was starting to think after basic training at Uxbridge, there followed the 'ab initio course (at same place) before posted out to a flying school, in this case, No 2 FTS at Digby? My little grey cells have taken over I'm afraid as I have got rather muddled! Should you have access to the Air Lists for early 1935 to Feb 1937, please could you check and see what is said about his three commission details as found via LG and Flight Global below. That will help me tie down some dates, thank you.

037775 Francis Willialm Scott TURNER. Born in Merritt, BC, Canada 1914. Died in Sep 1943.
Flight Global:- Posted to 2FTS as APO 2 May 1935.
London Gazette:- Granted temporary commission as APO 16 Nov 1936.
London Gazette:- Commission confirmed as APO Feb 1937

Norman

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Norman

I seem to remember that in 'Fly for your life', the biography of Stanford Tuck, his training is described and it all took place at one single FTS from Ab initio, through intermediate to advanced.

Cheers

Malcolm

[namrondooh]

Thanks Malcolm.

Please could you or another person tell me the exact date 37775 Francis William Scott TURNER received his commission as given in the Air List. I have narrowed it down to 1935/1936. Thank you

Norman

[Ross_McNeill]

Hi Norman

Gradation dates as follows

Acting P/O 20th April 1936
P/O 17th Feb 1937

Regards
Ross

[namrondooh]

Many thanks Ross

[David Duxbury]

Malcolm is quite correct of course, in that EFTSs did not exist in the RAF in 1935, although the FTSs did have elementary trainers, namely the popular Avro Tutor, plus much smaller numbers of Tomtits and Tiger Moths, which were used for all the "ab initio" flying training in those days. However when the E&RFTSs were set up in 1937 under semi-civilian control the surviving Tutors and Tigers were transferred to them, along with other ciivilian types. Nevertheless, the elementary, and advanced stages did exist in 1935, they were just carried out by different flights within the same school. THeir were no specialised "advanced" trainer aircraft at this time, as this role was carried out in semi-obsolete operational types as has already been mentioned, typically the Hawker single-engine bomber and army co-op types.

I am glad that Malcolm also mentioned Robert Stanford Tuck's biography (Larry Forrester, 1956) as I read this for the first time only about 2 months ago (rattling good yarn too!), and I have just consulted this work (should have done this a few days ago, would have picked up on it.) He reported to Uxbridge 16/9/35, and then to 3 FTS (Grantham) only 2 weeks later. According to Forrester (and Tuck!) "Uxbridge seemed as remote from aeroplanes and Tuck's conception of air force life as the shunting yards of Paddington." The prevailing atmosphere at Uxbridge was described thus: "The middle-aged flight sergeants and warrant officers who marched them about the camp and taught them drill were careful to address each 'sprog officer' as 'Sir' and the whole party as 'gentlemen'; they saluted on the most petty provocation, but nevertheless managed to infer contempt with every glance and utterance. Obviously they were firmly convinced that the RAF would be an infinitely more efficient force if there were no pilots ......" And what did they actually do at Uxbridge? As most have already guessed, "Lectures, kitting up, aptitude testing, parades, PT, innoculations, documentation - how wistful were the young faces that turned to the sky when, very occasionally, an aircraft droned high overhead." So this work is thoroughly reccomended! The state of affairs I was alluding to in my oroginal post were obviously a little further in the future than 1935, more like 2 years later, although the syllabus would have had many similar exercises to those of the earlier year.
David D

[namrondooh]

Thanks for the very useful information David

[namrondooh]

How long were the RAF Flying Training School courses for pilots during 1935 & 1936 please ?

[malcolm_raf]

In general about a year

Malcolm