430820 - Unaccounted airmen - 20-8-1943

[Henk Welting]

What were the places of death registration of:

A - Not found in Flight Magazine:
P/O (Pilot) Douglas S. FORD - 145343;
F/Sgt Joseph S. FOX - 746637, and
LAC Arthur H. NORTON - 937336 - age 34.

B - Killed on active service:
Sgt (WOp/Ag) John MARSH - 1496762.

C - Proposed aircraft losses:
Barracuda II - BV759 - 15 MU - crashed on ferry flight Rufford bombing range near Mansfield, Nottinghamshire (already as a casualty on this aircraft: F/Sgt John C. MILLIKEN - 1316791 - attd to ATA).
Beaufighter I - V8233 - 51 OTU - crashed on landing Twinwood Farm.
Hurricane IIC - LD308 - 16 FP - crashed on approach Lichfield.
Master I - T8669 - 55 OTU - crashed on take-off Longtown.
Master II - W9094 - RAFC - crashed on landing Cranwell South.

D - Also looking for the serial number of a 230 Sqn Sunderland, crashed in the Mozambique Channel and the crew commemorated on the Alamein Memorial:
F/Sgt William R. LEWIS - 1483476 - Column 269;
F/Lt (Nav) Malcolm W. McGREGOR - RCAF J/4768 - Column 271;
F/Sgt David M. MENZIES - 1126661 - Column 269;
Sgt Charles G.R. MOLL - 1263484 - Column 271;
F/Sgt George A. RIDGE - 629070 - Column 270;
F/Sgt William H. ROBJOHNS - 618971 - Column 270;
F/O Joseph W. STURDY - 124500 - Column 269;
F/Lt Archibald M. TODD - 42911 - Column 267, and
F/Sgt Alexander S. BUTLER - 1267080 - Column 269 (listed by CWGC with date of death 21-8-1943).

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

[alclark]

Fox was killed in a road accident while travelling to No.16 FTS at Newton on his motorbike.

Marsh was a crew member of Wellington X3986 of No.6 (C)OTU, which crashed in the Solway Firth.

August 20th 1943, “At 11.31 hours Wellington aircraft X3986 crashed in the sea in QY.5664. No survivors. Bombing exercise, strong gale blowing and a rough sea. Our own boat put out and nearly capsized and beached at Anthorn. Second boat put out but with heavy sea running was also beached at Groon Point. A third boat made several attempts to get out but was forced to return. Maryport liftboat patrol, 2 Martinets and Wellington searched area for 5 hours. One occupant seen floating in the water approximately 1 mile north of pier, but had disappeared by the time a circuit was made. 1 dinghy and 2 Mae Wests washed up at Pawfoot. Both side of Solway patrolled by police and Army detachments. Nothing discovered. Crew were as follows:- 1484114 Sgt Waugh (Pilot), 1317513 Sgt Griffiths (Pilot), Aus.421776 Sgt Walters (Nav.B), 1496762 Sgt Marsh (WOP/AG), 1452197 Sgt Manley (WOP/AG), 1452283 Sgt Jackson (WOP/AG).”

August 20th 1943, “Wellington crashed in Solway. One survivor seen in water from air, but drowned before A.S.R. reached him. (Gale blowing and strong tide).”

Ford's death is registered in the Shrewsbury district, his middle initial is R (Richard) rather than S.

Norton is registered in the Birmingham district, probably died as the result of an accident or illness at or close to home. His wife is noted as being from Birmingham and he is buried there.

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Al for this excellent info. I had the crew names of Wellington X3986 but missed MARSH completely.
Regards,
Henk.

[COL BRUGGY]

Henk,

What service number do you have for Sgt JACKSON, one of the WOP/AG's on X3986?

Col.

[alclark]

Do you mean, does the ORB say that? Yes it does, does CWGC say something completely different, yes it does, and it's not even close to the s/n in the ORB. AIR 78 time?

[COL BRUGGY]

Henk,

The Sunderland serial you are looking for is possibly Mk.III EJ131:

www.landinportugal.org/air_pages/a01_copy(131).htm

Col.

[Henk Welting]

Col,
For George M. JACKSON (Wellington X3986) I've svcnr 1394331.
The Sunderland I'm looking for and its crew on the Alamein Memorial is dated 20-8-1943. Air Britain EA100-EZ999 latest edition has for EJ131: Missing on patrol 27-3-1943, later found in Mozambique.
Regards,
Henk.

[COL BRUGGY]

Henk,

Re: JACKSON on X3986. Alan has indicated that the No.6 (C)OTU ORB quotes his service number as 1452283. The Items notes of AUS421776 F/Sgt (Obs.) David WALTERS RAAF (undigitised) A705, also uses this service number for JACKSON. The CWGC quotes JACKSON's service number as 1394331. We need a third, independent source, to sort this out.

For No.230 Sqn Sunderland III EJ131. Chaz Bowyer, in his book; The Short Sunderland (p.171), states:

EJ131 To 230 Sqn, crashed Mozambique 27 March, 1943 (9 killed); SOC 30 September 1943.

Significantly, there are no Sunderland squadron casualties recorded on the CWGC for the period, 26-3-1943 to 28-3-1943. This requires more work as well.

Col.

[thorne83]

Ford died due to injuries received in a car crash, in Shrewsbury, on the 17th August. Also killed in the crash was P/O B W Norman (145436).

Cheers,

Tom

[Ian M Macdonald]

Milliken was the only casualty when Barracuda BV759 crashed.
Source; Fleet Air Air Aircraft 1939 To 1945 (Sturtivant & Burrow)
Ian Macdonald

[Henk Welting]

Thanks friends for additional info. Looking forward for answers on JACKSON's servicenumber (1452283 or 1394331) and the serial of the Sunderland.
Regards,
Henk.

[dennis_burke]

And the AIR78 jury says:.......


George Meada JACKSON 1394331, I didn't find George () Jackson 1452283 among that batch of names.

So is that the ORB wrong then,

[dennis_burke]

Ford is listed DOAS in Dec 2nd magazine, but typed as P/O D R Ford

strangely, J S Fox is listed as Flt. Sgt S J Fox in Oct 28th magazine. There is no S J Fox in the CWGC.

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Dennis

Ther is a S J Fox on CWGC - Flt Sgt FOX, JOSEPH SAMUEL (746637) RAFVR; age: 36.

Malcolm

[dennis_burke]

No malcolm, read my message!

Henk is looking for Flt Sgt Joseph S Fox, (J S Fox)
Flight magazine does not have a J S Fox

it does have a 'Flt Sgt S J Fox' and as I stated CWGC do not have an 'S J Fox', they do have our man, 'J S Fox' however.

[malcolm_raf]

Sorry Dennis

I see your point, my mistake

Malcolm

[Martyn A Critchlow]

F/Sgt Joseph S. FOX - 746637 - accidental death, he was riding a motor cycle which was in collision with a dray on Radcliffe Road, Nottingham.
(Nottingham Evening Post, 31 August 1943)

Martyn

[COL BRUGGY]

Col,
For George M. JACKSON (Wellington X3986) I've svcnr 1394331.
The Sunderland I'm looking for and its crew on the Alamein Memorial is dated 20-8-1943. Air Britain EA100-EZ999 latest edition has for EJ131: Missing on patrol 27-3-1943, later found in Mozambique.
Regards,
Henk.

Belatedly, I would like to clear the air on 230 Sqn Sunderland III EJ131:

Tom Docherty, in his history of No.230 Sqn - Hunt Like A Tiger 230 Squadron at War 1939 - 1945 (Woodfield, 2013 [2nd ed.]), mentions the following:

(p.85)

The new Sunderlands continued to arrive from the UK and F/L Todd flew in EJ131:T on the 27th (March, 1943).

p.95)

On 20th August (1943), the squadron lost a Sunderland. F/L Todd took off in Sunderland EJ131:T to escort naval vessels and on arrival at the position failed to find the ships. At 1838hrs the Sunderland signalled that it was in difficulties and asked for bearings for Dar es Salaam and Diego Suarez. At 2003hrs a signal was received that the Sunderland was making a forced landing, after which nothing further was heard. Over the next days the squadron's Sunderlands and Catalinas searched for the missing aircraft but nothing was found, despite a search covering the whole of the western coast of Madagascar down to Tulear.

As can be seen, Air-Britain is obviously in error about the loss date of Sunderland III EJ131. They have quoted the date of its arrival on 230 Squadron, rather than the actual loss date.

Col.

[jonheyworth]

Joseph Samuel Fox 746637 , attached to Number 16 (P) SFTS, was killed at Cotgrave Lane on the Radcliffe Road, Nottinghamshire when his motorcycle collided with the rear of a timber drag as he overtook it at 19:25 Hours. A wheel of the drag passed over him and his motorcycle causing very severe head injuries