430823 - Unaccounted airmen - 23-8-1943

[Henk Welting]

What were the places of death registration of:

A - Not found in Flight Magazine:
Sgt (Pilot) Gideon BARSKY - 1394515, and
P/O (Pilot) John M. McIVER - 135509.

B - Died on active service:
AC2 William A.G. MULLIGAN - 1374268 - 80 Wing (Aldenham Lodge Hotel, Radlett, Herts.; Radio/Radar & Radio Counter Measures Work).

C - Killed on active service:
Sgt (Pilot) Newton H.M. WILLIAMS - 1490507.

D - Proposed aircraft losses:
Anson I - N5371 - 9 (O)AFU - flew into high ground E side of Foel Fras, 1 mile N of Llyn Dulyn Reservoir, Caernarvon (already as a survivor in this incident: Sgt A. BICKERDIKE).
Magister I - T9886 - 21 EFTS - spun into ground High Street, Great Missendon, Bucks. (already as a casualty on this aircraft: LAC Cadet Pilot u/t Jerzy H. SZYLLING - PAF 704281).
Wellington VIII - W5671 - 6 (C)OTU - crashed on approach Silloth.
Master II - DL284 - RAFC - spun into ground Welbourne Heath, 3 miles NNW of Cranwell (already as a casualty on this aircraft: Air Lt Pilot u/t Esat SASMAZ - Turkish Air Force).
Mosquito VI - HJ734 - De Havilland - collided Hollybush, 2 miles SW of Hatfield.
Mosquito VI - HX897 - De Havilland - refer to HJ734.
Oxford II - AB771 - 3 (P)AFU - crashed on take-off Lulsgate Bottom.
Beaufighter VI - ND161 - 2 (O)APU - crashed on take-off Filton.
Horsa I Glider - LH232 - 9 MU - crashed on approach Cosford.
Oxford I - LX219 - 3 (P)AFU - dived into ground at night on A429 1 mile S of Northleach.

E - Also looking for cause of death of F/O Reginald H.W. HARRIS - 139517 - his name commemorated on Panel 6 Column 2 of the Malta Air Forces Memorial. GRO listed as 1676 Flight, however this unit was not formed before 1-9-1943 at Chaklala, India, in 184 Wing. (Perhaps missing on the way to Chaklala ?).

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

[Henk Welting]

...Forgot to mention that already have as a casualty on Oxford LX219: Sgt (Pilot) Sydney J. DATSON - 1335305.

Henk.

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Henk

Sgt (Pilot) Gideon BARSKY - 1394515 - Weston super Mare (LX216?)
P/O (Pilot) John M. McIVER - 135509 - not Eng/Wales
AC2 William A.G. MULLIGAN - 1374268 - Blyth, Northumberland
Sgt (Pilot) Newton H.M. WILLIAMS - Weston super Mare (LX216?)

I have SZYLLING as being killed in Oxford, T1141 of 16 (P) SFTS and he is registered in Grantham where T1161 came down.

Malcolm

[alclark]

The No.16 (P)FTS ORB states that Szylling was killed in a Master.

August 23rd 1943, “704281, LAC Szylling crashed in Master at 16:45 at Tollerton, killed instantly.”

I'd have associated McIver with Magister T9886, the CWGC record a family connection with Gloucestershire while he is buried in Buckinghamshire. I've found his death registered as John M. MacIver, Age 31, Amersham, Vol.3a Pg.1149, Amersham includes Great Missendon.

[COL BRUGGY]

Henk,

Re: 139517 F/O R H W HARRIS:

23-8-1943
No.1676 Flight, North Front/Gibraltar.
Spitfire Vc JK515

Engine cut, ditched E of Gibraltar.

139517 F/O (Pilot) Reginald Henry William HARRIS RAFVR - Missing.

Commemorated on the Malta Memorial. Panel 6. Column 2.

No.1676 (Target Towing) Flight, formed 12-10-1942 at North Front/Gibraltar. See: RAFFT&SU/144(1st ed.).

One other source gives a slightly different story on the origins of No.1676 Flight.

GIBRALTAR.

In the aftermath of "Torch", 1943 saw much coming and going. Firstly there was the formation 1676 Gibraltar Defence Flight, formed on 12 April with eight Spitfire Vcs for the air defence of the Rock. (Prior to this a fighter capability had been provided from the resources of the so-called, Spitfire Erection Party, formed the previous year to assemble Spifires for "Torch". No.1676 Flight became 'C' Flight of 253 Sqn, and then 256 Sqn based elsewhere, before fading out of the picture by May 1944).

See:
Action Stations - Overseas.
Fairbairn,Tony. Sqn. Ldr.
Sparkford:P.S.L.,1991.
p.72

Col.

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Al

SZYLLING's death was registered in Grantham which covers Sedgebrook where T1141 came down but not Tollerton which would have been registered in Bingham. Perhaps the ORB noted the wrong aircraft?

Malcolm

[ian94avenge]

Oxford T1141 of 16 (Polish) SFTS was abandoned on August 23, 1943 after control lost in cloud and aircraft began to break up over Sedgebrook, Notts. (Sedgebrook is some 4 miles west of Grantham, Lincolnshire).

16 (P) SFTS was based at Newton, Notts, and so the area of the crash fits rather than Great Missendon, Bucks.

Although the death of LAC Cadet Pilot u/t Jerzy H. SZYLLING - PAF 704281 is registered at Grantham he is not as far as I am aware buried at Grantham (incidentally my hometown) but perhaps rests with his compatriants at Newark.

Incidentally does anyone have a list of the Poles buired at Newark as these do not appear to be listed within the CWGC data.

Ian

[dennis_burke]

Check the war graves photo project database, it has extra info compared to cwgc.

[alclark]

Ian

I said that McIver's death was registered in the right area for Magister T9886 of No.21 EFTS, not Szylling.

[COL BRUGGY]

Ian,

For your Polish/Newark burials:

http://felsztyn.tripod.com/id20.html

Scroll down to Part Two.

Be patient, large site!

Col.

[Henk Welting]

Thank you friends for all this excellent info; will amend my files.
Best regards,
Henk.

[dennis_burke]

TWPP website does contain him

Szylling, Jerzy Henryk
Cemetery: Newark-Upon-Trent Cemetery
Country: England
Area: Nottinghamshire
Rank: Airman
Official Number: P.704281
Unit: Polish Air Force
Force: Air Force
Nationality: Polish
Details:
23/08/43 21 War Graves Plot Section M Grave 318.

[Henk Welting]

Malcolm,
Refer to your message # 3: BARSKY and WILLIAMS (registered Weston super Mare) possibly on LX216.
LX216 lost 22-11-11944 with 3 (P)AFU. Did you mean to say that both airmen may have been on LX219 (control lost at night; dived into ground 1 mile S of Northleach/Glos. Already have as a casualty on this aircraft Sgt [Pilot] Sydney J. DATSON - 12335305).
Regards,
Henk.

[Henk Welting]

Typo svcnr DATSON: correct number was 1335305.
Henk.

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Henk

I must have read the wrong line in the A-B book. Barsky and Williams are both rgistered in Weston super Mare whilst Datsun is Cirencester, so they are not on the same aircraft.

Barsky and Williams therefore still unknown

Malcolm

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Malcolm for confirmation DATSON's place of registration.
Henk.

[ian94avenge]

ALClark - point taken.

Col, Thanks for the link to the Newark graves, as you say plenty here to go thro !

Regards,

Ian

[COL BRUGGY]

Ian,

Use this site as a back-up for Polish/Newark graves:

http://www.polishairforce.pl/_cmnewark.html

(In Polish).

Col.

[Ross_McNeill]

Hi Henk,

F1180 gives Barsky and Williams killed on Oxford AB771.

Datson confirmed as sole fatality on Oxford I - LX219

Regards
Ross

[paulmcmillan]

Thanks to Dennis Civilian CWGC List we now know second person (passnger) on Magister T9886 of No.21 EFTS along with P/O (Pilot) John M. McIVER - 135509

Joan VE Pile aged 17

She is Valerie Pile on CWGC so Joan Valerie E Pile aged 17 it is (on Birth records she is Joan V E Pile)

[wwrsimon]

Hello

AC2 William A.G. MULLIGAN - 1374268 - registered Blyth, Suffolk, not the Blyth in Northumberland.

Regards

Simon

[jonheyworth]

UPGRADE to Arthur Stanley Emerson R 58784, he died in the Winnipeg general hospital of a malignant astrocytoma cereberal tumour

[jonheyworth]

UPGRADE to Luther Appelt R 50936, attached to Number 1 wireless school, he died of polio

[jonheyworth]

William Angus Gillespie Mulligan 1374268 , attached to Number 80 Signals Wing , was accidently electrocuted at RAF Sizewell