400930 - Unaccounted airmen - 30-9-1940

[Henk Welting]

What caused the death of and/or what were the places of death registration for:

Sgt (WOp/Ag) Herbert R. CLAYTON - 939677 - killed on active service
Sgt (Pilot u/t) John C. HURST - 745671 - name not found in Flight archives
Cpl Norman L.D. KEMP - 354299 - killed on active service
P/O (Pilot) Douglas J. NEILL - 81336 - killed on active service
Sgt (WOp/Ag) Fred SMITH - 970132 - killed on active service
Sgt (Pilot) William H. WAKE - 742271 - killed on active service.

Proposed aircraft losses for this day:

Anson I - K6236 - 1 SGR - crashed in forced landing South Shore, Blackpool
Battle I - L5047 - 7 AACU - crashed on overshoot Pembridge LG
Hudson I - N7273 - 1 (C)OTU - dived into ground Cummertrees, Dumfries
Master I - N7771 - 8 FTS - flew into ground on night approach 1½ mile E of Edzell.

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

[alclark]

Here are the ORB entries for Master N7771 and Hudson N7273.

September 30th 1940, 8 F.T.S. Montrose, “Master aircraft N7771 crashed at Edzell while night flying 745671 Sgt Hurst, the sole occupant was killed.”

September 30th 1940, 1 O.T.U. Silloth, “A Hudson machine N7273 crashed at Cummertrees Annan the following were killed. 81336 P/O Neill D.G. 742271 Sgt Wake W.H. 970132 Sgt Smith F.”

[davew]

Henk

Clayton, Neill, Smith and Wake are registered at Hoddon, Dumfries. Place of death Barrhill, Ecclefechan, Annan, which, although I have not been able to pinpoint Barrhill, is 7m or so NE of Cummertrees where Hudson N7273 is said to have crashed.

Hurst is registered at Marykirk and was in N7771.

Kemp is registered at Hastings.

regards

DaveW

[alclark]

Interesting 1 OTU forgot one of the crew. I have checked the 10 BGS ORB and while they didn't name the crew it confirmed four crew. “Hudson aircraft from OTU Silloth crashed near Annan. All four occupants being killed.”

[Dick]

Hi Henk
Kemp,37, is registered at Hastings in Sussex, Neill,22, is registered at Blyth which is in Suffolk. I found 2 Wakes. A William H Wake is registered at Fylde but his age is given as 57, although the area would be right for Blackpool. A William Wake ,19, is registered in a district called Northumberland N 2ND (there is a N 1st)
In view of what Dave has found we should put my Wakes to Sleep!!
Regards
Dick

[Henk Welting]

Thanks friends for all your valuable info; very much appreciated.
Regards,
Henk.

[wwrsimon]

Hello

Cpl Norman L.D. KEMP - 354299 - the Hastings and St Leonards Observer of October 5th 1940 reported the following:

BROTHERS DIE IN SUCCESSIVE RAIDS
A tragic coincidence had robbed Mr. and Mrs. W. Kemp, of 126 Emmanuel Road, Hastings, of two sons, Norman Llewellyn David Kemp, aged 37, a corporal in the Royal Air Force, and Nelson Oliver Kemp, aged 33.
The younger son lost his life in the air raid on Hastings on Thursday last week. His elder brother, Norman, came home on leave from the R.A.F. on Sunday in order to attend the funeral on Tuesday. He was actually out on affairs in connection with the funeral arrangements when he was fatally wounded by a bomb fragment. The two brothers were buried together yesterday (Friday).

Regards

Simon

[jonheyworth]

Norman David Llewellyn Kemp 354299 , attached to Number 7 B&G school was killed by bomb shrapnel in an air raid in Hastings whilst on leave to arrange the funeral of his brother, special constable Nelson Oliver Hugh Kemp, who had been killed in an air raid on the town on 26th September

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

400930 - Unaccounted Airmen - 30-09-1940

From Henk's List -

UK
KEMP, Norman Llewellyn David - Cpl - 354299 - RAF - 7BGS.
Hastings Cemetery, Sussex.
Killed by bomb shrapnel in Hastings while on leave to arrange his brothers funeral.

From CWGC -

AUSTRALIA
DUNSTAN, Robert Alexander - AC1c - 15597 - RAAF.
Springvale War Cemetery, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Died at Caulfield Repatriation Hospital, Melbourne.

BELGIUM
SAMBROOK, Harry Edward - Sgt - 935979 - RAF.
Belgrade Cemetery, Namur, Belgium.
Wellington I - L7843 - 214 Sqn.

EGYPT
CATER, Leslie - Sgt - 741384 - RAFVR.
MEADOWCROFT, Kenneth Herbert - Sgt - 581019 - RAF.
SHELTON, Bernard James - Sgt - 642942 - RAF.
These three airmen are commemorated on the Alamein Memorial, Egypt.
They were crew of Blenheim IV - T2171 - 113 Sqn.

ERITREA
BUSH, George Justin - Sqn/Ldr - 37061 - RAF.
CORNEY, James - Sgt - 541684 - RAF.
USHER, John Charles - Sgt - 580912 - RAF.
These three airmen rest at Asmara War Cemetery, Eritrea.
They were crew of Blenheim I - L8461 - 45 Sqn.

GERMANY
HOWE, Grant Frederick Kerslake - LA - FX.77340 - HMS Daedalus - RN.
Sage War Cemetery, Niedersachsen, Germany.
Albacore - L7100 - 826 Sqn FAA,RN.

PAKISTAN
FARRELL, Hugh - Lac - 543833 - RAF.
GARFOOT, Allan (Australian) - F/O - 40617 - RAF.
These two airmen rest at Karachi War Cemetery, Pakistan.
They were crew of Demon I - K5685 - 20 Sqn.

NEW ZEALAND
SMITH, Raymond Bernard - Cpl - 38217 - RNZAF [But 3rd Oct 1940 ?].
SMITH, Sheldon Benton - F/Sgt - 34167 - RNZAF.
These two airmen rest at Auckland (Waikumete) Cemetery, Waitakere City, New Zealand.
They were crew of Oxford - NZ1251 - 3 SFTS(NZ).

UK
BACON, Charles Harvey - F/O - 74324 - RAFVR.
Windermere (St. Mary's) Cemetery, Westmorland.
Spitfire Ia - K9818 - 610 Sqn.

BURT, Eric - Sgt - 971328 - RAFVR.
Edinburgh (Liberton) Cemetery, Edinburgh.
COOK, Charles Owen - Sgt - 748780 - RAFVR.
Manchester Southern Cemetery, Lancashire.
GOW, John Gray - Sgt - 742021 - RAFVR.
Dundee (Balgay) Cemetery, Angus.
These three airmen were crew of Hampden I - L4189 - 106 Sqn.

BEVAN - JOHN, Spencer Rhys - P/O - 81933 - RAFVR.
Pembrey (St.Illtyd) Churchyard, Carmarthenshire.
MACQUIRE, Stanley - Sgt - 747938 - RAFVR.
Northampton (Kingsthorpe) Cemetery, Northamptonshire.
SHAW, Harold Arthur - Sgt - 630002 - RAF
Runnymede Memorial, Surrey.
These three airmen were crew of Blenheim IV - T2044 - 53 Sqn.

CLAYTON, Herbert Reginald - Sgt - 939677 - RAFVR.
Leicester (Gilroes)Cemetery, Leicestershire.
NEILL, Douglas James - P/O - 81336 - RAFVR.
Blairgowrie Cemetery, Perthshire.
SMITH, Fred - Sgt - 970132 - RAFVR.
Elton(All Saints) Churchyard, Lancashire.
WAKE, William Hereward - Sgt - 742271 - RAFVR.
Oulton (St.Michael) Churchyard, Suffolk.
These four airmen were crew of Hudson I - N7273 - 1(C) OTU.

COX, Ronald Christopher - Sgt - 740172 - RAFVR.
Hull Northern Cemetery, Yorkshire.
GIBBS, Arthur James - Sgt - 748374 - RAFVR.
Killead (St.Catherine) Church of Ireland Churchyard, County Antrim, UK.
O'CONNOR, John Patrick - Sgt - 627424 - RAF.
North Ormesby (St.Joseph's) Roman Catholic Cemetery, Yorkshire.
POSGATE, Kenneth - Sgt - 565653 - RAF.
Killead Presbyterian Churchyard, County Antrim, UK.
SWANN, Stanley - Sgt - 551592 - RAF.
Killead (St.Catherine) Church of Ireland Churchyard, County Antrim, UK.
These five airmen were crew of Hudson I - T9326 - 224 Sqn.

CROSSMAN, John Dallas (Australian) - P/O - 43283 - RAF.
Chalfont St.Giles Churchyard, Buckinghamshire.
Hurricane I - V6748 - 46 Sqn.

GOODWIN, Charles - Sgt - 754024 - RAFVR.
Hull Northern Cemetery, Yorkshire.
McCAUL, John Patrick - AC2c - 1050678 - RAFVR.
Leigh Cemetery, Lancashire.
SHEPPERD, George Edward - Sgt - 523887 - RAF.
Catterick Cemetery, Yorkshire.
These three airmen were crew of Blenheim I - L1261 - 219 Sqn.

HARDACRE, John Reginald - F/O - 41405 - RAF.
Fawley (All Saints) Churchyard, Hampshire.
Hurricane I - P3414 - 504 Sqn.

HURST, John Charles - Sgt - 745671 - RAFVR.
Billinge (St.Aidan) Churchyard, Lancashire.
Master I - N7771 - 8 SFTS.

JELLEY, Edward Arthur - P/O - 78762 - RAFVR.
Swadlincote District (Church Gresley) Cemetery, Derbyshire.
Wellington Ic - R3168 - 75 Sqn.

KENNAWAY, Charles Stewart Hamilton - Lt - HMS Peregrine - RN.
LANE, Richard John - Midshipman (A) - HMS Peregrine - RNVR.
These two Naval Airmen are Commemorated on the Lee-on-Solent Memorial, Hampshire.
They were crew of Albacore - L7100 - 826 Sqn FAA,RN.

KURKA, Jan (Czech) - Sgt - 787661 - RAFVR.
Sutton Bridge (St.Matthew) Churchyard, Lincolnshire.
Hurricane I - L1986 - 6 OTU.

LAWS, Adrian Francis - P/O - 45092 - RAF - DFM.
Wells-Next-The-Sea Cemetery, Norfolk.
Spitfire Ia - K9805 - 64 Sqn.

MERRETT, Jack Edwin - Sgt - 520314 - RAF.
Reading (Henley Road)Cemetery, Oxfordshire.
WALTERS, Sidney - Sgt - 626198 - RAF.
Probus (SS.Probus and Grace) Churchyard, Cornwall.
These two airmen were crew of Blenheim IV - N6191 - 107 Sqn.

ODSTRCILEK, Otaker ( Czech) - Sgt - 787369 - RAFVR.
Benson (St.Helen) Churchyard Extension, Oxfordshire.
Battle I - L5079 - 12 OTU.

PENNINGTON, Roy - LA(Pilot U/T) - FX.79264 - HMS Daedalus - RN.
Wallasey (Rake Lane) Cemetery, Cheshire.
Hart - K5038 - 1 SFTS(RAF).

RAVENHILL, Malcolm - F/O - 40750 - RAF.
Sheffield (City Road) Cemetery, Yorkshire.
Hurricane I - P2815 - 229 Sqn.

REDDINGTON, Leslie Arthur Edwin - Sgt - 742516 - RAFVR.
Runnymede Memorial, Surrey.
Spitfire Ia - L1072 - 152 Sqn.

HOPPERT, Max - GAF.
PENKA, Rudolf - GAF.
These two German airmen rest at West Thorney (St.Nicholas)Churchyard, Sussex.
Cause of death ?

SCHOCKE, Willi - GAF.
Gosport (Ann's Hill) Cemetery, Hampshire.
Cause of death ?

BERTRAM, Hans - GAF.
BRAATZ, Wilhelm - GAF.
DOLLINGER, Alois - GAF.
EHSMANN, Heinrich - GAF.
HORNATSCHEK, Heinrich - GAF.
HUEBEL, Kurt - GAF.
KLASING, Georg - GAF.
LIMPERT, Paul - GAF.
OBERMAYER, Johann - GAF.
SALOMO, Alfred August - GAF.
SANDER, Alfred Paul - GAF.
WAACK, Friedrich - Karl - GAF.
ZIEMENS, Helmut - GAF.
These thirteen German Airmen rest at Cannock Chase German Military Cemetery, Staffordshire.
Cause of death ?

Alex

[CZ_RAF]

Hi Alex,

ZIEMENS, Helmut - GAF.

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/KrackerDatabase/?s=1200&q=26%20September%201939&qand=&exc1=&exc2=&search_type=&search_only=

Ziemens, Helmut Gefr 1/19/1917 Stutthof 7/JG-26 (Channel) Bf 109E-4 Werk # 3645 (lost 9/30/40) Fighter Operational Clasp KIA 30 September, 1940 when he straggled on the return flight from England and was downed by a Spitfire. Crashed into the sea off Suffolk. Washed ashore and buried 18 October, 1940 by Southwold in the Cemetery at St Edmunds Church, later, Cannock Chase Block 1 Grave 302. Jager Blatt article. His date of death incorrectly reported as 24 September, 1940 (M.Croft). Alternate spelling: Ziemans.

Pavel

[CZ_RAF]

EHSMANN, Heinrich - GAF.
OBERMAYER, Johann - GAF.
WAACK, Friedrich - Karl - GAF.

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/KrackerDatabase/?s=200&q=eberle%20friedrich&qand=&exc1=&exc2=&search_type=&search_only=

1(F)/123 (Channel) Ju 88A-1 Werk # 0385 "4U + MH" (lost 9/30/40)
30 September, 1940 after crashing off Ventnor, the Isle of Wight, during a recon sortie,cause unknown, three other unnamed crew KIA (Ju 88 Loss List). Update: Remaining crew (KIA, washed ashore three days later & bur at Parkhurst Cem, then transferred to CC, Plot 7, Row 10): Fw Friedrich Karl Waack (geb 12/17/1915), Gr 246; Uffz Heinrich Essmann, still in Parkhurst ? and Uffz Johann Obermayer, Gr 245 (D.Drury)

Pavel

[CZ_RAF]

SANDER, Alfred Paul - GAF.

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/KrackerDatabase/?s=500&q=jakobi%20alfred&qand=&exc1=&exc2=&search_type=&search_only=

Sander, Alfred Richard? Uffz 7/19/1917 3/JG-27 (Channel) Bf 109E-4 Werk # 3630 (lost 9/30/40) Fighter Operational Clasp KIA 30 September, 1940 during aerial combat, crashing into a pond on Cinderhill Fram, Horsted Keynes, Hayward Heath, Sussex. Buried Cannock Chase, Block 1, Gr 17. Source: M.Croft.

[CZ_RAF]

LIMPERT, Paul - GAF

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/KrackerDatabase/?s=300&q=zorner,%20paul&qand=&exc1=&exc2=&search_type=&search_only=

Limpert, Paul Uffz 1920 2 7/JG-51 (Channel) Bf 109E-1 Werk # 4856 (lost 9/30/40) EK 2
Fighter Operational Clasp KIA 30 September, 1940 during aerial combat, crashing at Kentwyns Nutfield, near Redhill, Surrey; buried Cannock Chase, Block 5, Gr 49 (M.Croft). His first victory, a Spitfire 10 km SW of Dover on 5 August, 1940. His 2nd, a Spitfire at London on & September, 1940.

[CZ_RAF]

HUEBEL, Kurt - GAF

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/KrackerDatabase/?s=400&q=Gr%C3%A4f,%20kurt&qand=&exc1=&exc2=&search_type=&search_only=

Hübel, Kurt Fw 12/30/1918 Munich 3 7/JG-51 (Channel) Bf 109D, Bf 109E-4 Werk # 3391 (lost 9/30/40) EK 2
Fighter Operational Clasp KIA 30 September, 1940 during aerial combat, crashing at Kennards Farm, Leigh, two miles NW of Tonbridge, Kent. Buried Cannock Chase, Block 1, Gr 16. (M.Croft). His 1st victory, a Blenheim northwest of Watten on 11 July, 1940. A 2nd (referred to as #3 by Perry), a Hurricane at Dungeness on 14 September, 1940. Perry Claims.

[CZ_RAF]

DOLLINGER, Alois - GAF

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/KrackerDatabase/?q=Auth%2CAlois+

Dollinger, Alois Uffz 8/28/1917 Jattingen 5/JG-2 (Channel) Bf 109E-4 Werk # 4861 (lost 9/30/40) EK 2
Fighter Operational Clasp KIA 30 September, 1940; shot down by F/O T. Nowierski of RAF No. 609 Sq. over Warmwell. Dollinger bailed safely but died when his chute failed to open. The AC crashed at Sprakefield, Hundred Acres Farm, Sydling St Nicholas, England. Buried Cannock Chase, Blick 6, Gr 23 (M.Croft).

[CZ_RAF]

BRAATZ, Wilhelm

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/KrackerDatabase/?s=1700&q=13%20January%201940&qand=&exc1=&exc2=&search_type=&search_only=

Braatz, Wilhelm Uffz 12/31/1919 Potsdam 9/JG-54 (Channel) Bf 109E-4 Werk# 5116 "Yellow 6" (lost 9/30/40) Fighter Operational Clasp KIA 30 September, 1940 in aerial combat with Spitfires east of Tonbridge-Kent, crashing at Dairy Farm, Golden Green. He may have been wounded this date, as his death was recorded as 3 October, 1940 (M.Croft). Burial showing CC, Blk 1, Gr 166 ("Luft Graves UK").

[CZ_RAF]

SCHOCKE, Willi - GAF.

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/KrackerDatabase/?q=bauer

4/KG-55 He 111P-2 Werk # 2643 "G1 + CM" (lost 9/30/40) 30 September, 1940; sd by Hurricanes of Nos. 238 & 504 Sqs. during an operation to Yeovil, Somerset. The ac crashed into the sea off Portland, Dorset. Remaining crew: Ofw Helmut Guttler (or Güttler), Obs (MIA); Gefr Karl Bauer, R/O (MIA); Gefr Fritz Strauss, Flt Engr (MIA) and Ogefr Willi Schocke, Gnr (KIA). The body of Gefr Schocke washed ashore on 14 October, 1940, and was buried at Gosport (Ann's Hill) Cem., Plot 189, Gr 24 (D.Drury). Alternate spelling: Rudeck.

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello,

PAKISTAN.

FARRELL, Hugh - LAC - 543833 - RAF
GARFOOT, Allan (Australian) - F/O - 40617 - RAF

They were crew of Demon I - K5685 - 20 Sqn.

Not so! F/O Garfoot was killed outright and LAC Farrell later died in hospital from burns, whilst flying Hawker Audax (India) K5585. See: The K File/Halley/A-B,1995/p.106.

and ...

No.20 Sqn ORB (F.540) 1939 Jun 01 - 1942 Oct 21 - AIR 27/259/1 - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8409307 - p.54 of 126

Col.

[Alex Smart]

Thank you Col, sadly too late for me to correct my first post.
However this forum's database has - Demon K5685 -
http://www.rafcommands.com/database/search.php?qname=K5685
Alex

[Andy Marden]

Alex,
That is because the database was set up to automatically link to serials in TNA records.
As AIR81/3537 was wrong, so was the database.
I have now corrected the TNA and CWGC links to show the correct aircraft.
Andy

[Andy Marden]

LAWS, Adrian Francis - P/O - 45092 - RAF - DFM.
Wells-Next-The-Sea Cemetery, Norfolk.
Spitfire Ia - K9805 - 64 Sqn.


K9805 was the other aircraft involved in the mid-air collision: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16687638
It survived to be SOC in April 1945.
Laws was flying P9564

[Andy Marden]

NEW ZEALAND
SMITH, Raymond Bernard - Cpl - 38217 - RNZAF [But 3rd Oct 1940 ?].
SMITH, Sheldon Benton - F/Sgt - 34167 - RNZAF.
These two airmen rest at Auckland (Waikumete) Cemetery, Waitakere City, New Zealand.
They were crew of Oxford - NZ1251 - 3 SFTS(NZ).

There were three crew on this aircraft, as covered by Paul McMillan here:
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?23881-1940-Unaccounted-Airmen-Database-Reconciliation&p=138883#post138883

[Andy Marden]

ERITREA
BUSH, George Justin - Sqn/Ldr - 37061 - RAF.
CORNEY, James - Sgt - 541684 - RAF.
USHER, John Charles - Sgt - 580912 - RAF.
These three airmen rest at Asmara War Cemetery, Eritrea.
They were crew of Blenheim I - L8461 - 45 Sqn.

The serial of the Blenheim involved has still not been resolved. Refer to my post at: http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?27091-Bristol-Blenheim-anomalies&p=158581#post158581
Can anyone add any more please?

[Andy Marden]

The Germans not already covered (source Kracker Archive or BoB Then and Now):

HOPPERT, Max - GAF.
PENKA, Rudolf - GAF.
These two German airmen rest at West Thorney (St.Nicholas)Churchyard, Sussex.
Cause of death ?
>> Shot down off Beachy Head in Ju88A-1 2063 9K+DH of I./KG51

BERTRAM, Hans - GAF. >> shot down over Sussex in Bf109E-4 3763 of JG27
HORNATSCHEK, Heinrich - GAF. >> shot down over Beachy Head in Bf109E-1 4820 of 9./JG26
KLASING, Georg - GAF. >> Shot down in Ju88A-1 2142 3Z+DK of 2./KG77, force-landed Gatwick

[Alex Smart]

Hello Andy, Yes I should have checked FCL vol 1 which does give LAWS with P9564 :(

[Alex Smart]

Hello Andy,This is quite odd as CWGC and the papers show that Major's date of death was the 3rd September. 1940.
See my 400909 - Unaccounted Airmen - 03-09-1940 post, there was no response re Major .
Alex

[Alex Smart]

Hello Andy,
Again I should have got a book off the shelf.RAF BC Losses in the Middle East and Mediterranean vol 1 shows on page 27 that Bush,Usher and Corney were in L6665 :)