Group 224, Mobile Signals Units and Hospitals in Burma, India & Bengal - help sought

[elfinblues]

Hello everyone

This is the first time I've posted here. I had previously visited the ww2talk forum, and received some wonderfully kind and helpful assistance in deciphering my grandfather's second world war RAF service record. My grandfather passed away fourteen years ago, before I'd ever thought to ask him much about his war experiences and sadly without leaving much behind in the way of reminiscences. Obtaining and deciphering his service record was my first step in working out what he did during the war; my eventual aim is to write up my researched, second-hand account of his war years as a chapter of a bigger family history book. He was a dedicated family historian, and I've always been surprised by how little he left behind in the way of personal reminscences, but I hope he'd be pleased with what I'm doing and give it his seal of approval.

I don't think that my grandfather had a particularly eventful (if that is anywhere near being the right word) or difficult war compared to many, but I would like to find out about it nonetheless. He started the war years as an accounts clerk, but quickly grew bored and went into training as a wireless mechanic. In 1943, he travelled out to India, Bengal and Burma, where he was to remain for the rest of the war. He was attached to 224 Group (HQ Chittagong)/3rd Tactical Air Force in August 43, and then joined 5781 Mobile Signals Unit in June 44, working I believe in various places from Chittagong to Rangoon (though I know not where), and eventually (in Jan 45) moved to 7 Base Signals Unit (which I've been told may have been in Sambre, Belgaum?). In between, I know that he also spent time in hospital in Secunderabad, in at Wellington in the Nilgiri Hills, and at Kalimpong. I know little else, other than that he witnessed some horrendous scenes during the 1943/4 Bengal famine and that he befriended some people at St Placid's School in Chittagong who were striving to help the affected.

I'm currently spending time on background reading, trying to improve my knowledge of the India/Burma theatre of war and of the RAF in that period (and in general). But I'd then like to get more focused and specific in my research. I'm particularly interested in how to find out something about what he actually did at the HQ in Chittagong and with the mobile and base signals units, where he travelled to with them, what his duties consisted of, what technology he worked with, what daily life would have been like, and what he might have done with time off/leave. Does anyone know if such things as group diaries, unit diaries, hospital admission records, or other sources of information might exist? I want the write-up I eventually produce to be a mixture of contextual background information and specific details about where he was and what he did. His service record tells me only so much; I imagine that such things as diaries would help me 'fill in the gaps' and get a fuller impression of his wartime experiences, should they - or equivalent documents - exist.

This is a broad request, I know, but I have no real knowledge of what sources of info I might be able to turn to to help get a better picture of what my grandfather did in the east. I am pleased with the start I have made so far, but I need the help of experts to help me progress further. If anyone would be able to offer any advice or guidance, I would be hugely grateful.

With thanks and best wishes,
Steve

[CZ_RAF]

Hi Steve, welcome aboard!

I will try to answer - in general - to help you to start.
As for the units or stations - there should be Operations Record Books held bythe National Archives at Kew, London. You can search for them online: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/

I do not expect there will be any record of your grandfather but you should see some interesting information about the unit etc. if you will visit the archive.

This should be the best start for your and when you will be there you can also ask the staff for further assistance.

HTH

Pavel

[elfinblues]

Thank you, Pavel, for the welcome and for your help.

I have done as you suggested and searched the National Archives website - and had partial success. I found a record for the ORB for 7 Base Signals Unit (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C7159507). However, for 5781 Mobile Signals Unit I can find nothing at all, which is sad because that was, I believe, the most 'active' part of his war and the part which I'm most interested in. For 224 Group, the most likely result of a whole host of search results is http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C7162155 simply because it refers to 224 Group and Chittagong, though the specifics ("Anti-Aircraft Flight RAF Regiment") don't seem to fit.

[CZ_RAF]

Steve as for 5781 Mobile Signals Unit - do you know where it was based when not on wheels? You can try to search for the station name, sometimes the unit will appear in this search too.

But also there is a possibility that the ORB of this mobile unit does not survive till today...

Pavel

[elfinblues]

The closest info I have to provide an answer, Pavel, is a line he wrote in a letter I have in my possession where he writes that "I served with the RAF’s 224 Group/3rd Tactical Air Force in Mobile Signals Units from Chittagong to Rangoon".

So Mobile Signals Units always had a base location - is that right? If so, then I would assume from the above that this would be either Chittagong or Rangoon, though I am only inferring that from what he said in his letter.

[Resmoroh]

Steve, welcome,
Malcom’s rafweb gives the following:-
224 Grp. Formed 3 Jan 1942 as No 224 (Fighter) Group. Disbanded, 28 Mar 1942. Reformed 1 Apr 1942 Renamed No 224 (Tactical - [U] - and this is important) Group, 1 Dec 1942. Disbanded by renaming as AHQ Malaya, 30 Sep 1945. Reformed, 31 Aug 1957 from AHQ Malaya. Disbanded, 1 Oct 1968
38 Grp. Reformed 1 Jan 1960 as No 38 (Air Support) Group within Transport Command. Transferred to Strike Command 1 Jul 1972. Disbanded 17 Nov 1983.Thus, the re-formed ‘modern’ 38 Grp was – I think – organised on the same lines as 224 Grp in FEAF, and from their experiences. That is, there was a HQ Unit, a number of component Units, and various Wings, and Sqns (Tac Ops, Tac Comms Wg, Tac Supply Wg, Tac ATC, Mobile Air Movs Sqn, Mobile Met Unit, Mobile Catering Support Unit, right down to Tac Bogs & Drains, etc, etc, etc,). When operationally required the whole lot moved into the field into temporary accommodation (tents, disused schools/factories, etc, etc – whatever was available). Done it many times, both on Ops and Exercises.
However, the Units (etc), the Equipment, and the Bodies that operated it all may not have been co-located all at the same Base at the same time. Bits of the (then) ‘modern’ 38 Grp were scattered as “Lodger Units” all over the UK – and moved often!! What you have to picture is all the infrastructure required to move (by air/sea/land) a whole tactical airfield (sometimes two!) into the field – complete with the controlling HQ. And then have to deal with real aircraft doing real ops. (As has been said, the RAF would be a good place to work in if it were not for all those aircraft!!!).
HTH
Peter Davies

[elfinblues]

Peter, thank you. He was posted to 224 Group on 8/8/43, so it is the period of the Group's existence from then until the end of the war that I am interested in. Your post has helped me to appreciate what the component parts were that made up a Group, and a beginner's sense of the logistics involved in operating one. Thank you.

My grandfather's overseas service seems to be split into three main periods: (1) August 43-June 44 based at 224 Group HQ in Chittagong (with periods in hospital and recuperation); (2) June 44-Jan 45 5781 Mobile Signals Units from Chittagong to Rangoon; (3) 7 Base Signals Unit, apparently based in Sambre, Belgaum. My aim is to try and find out what he did in each of these three periods - where he was, what he did, what he worked on, who he was with, what daily life was like, etc.

[Ian Brown]

Steve,

I think I maybe able to help with some general information. The best source, as Pavel has already mentioned, are any relevant records in The National Archives. However, the following information comes from Air Publication 3237 Royal Air Force Signals Volume II Telecommunications:

p.259: The W/T [Wireless Telegraphy, ie Morse] requirements for Bengal Command (which included two operational groups, Nos 221 and 224) comprised six main point-to-point channels, plus bomber and GR [General Reconnaissance] point-to-point channels between Headquarters No 221 Group and four groups of airfields, fighter operations point-to-point channels between Headquarters No 224 Group and three groups of fighter airfields, local point-to-point channels between 18 main airfields and their satellites, local point-to-point between Observer Corps centres, and aircraft guard, DF [Direction Finding], and VHF R/T [Very High Frequency Radio Telephony, ie speech] and homing facilities.

p.265: Two Signals Wings were formed in No 221 Group, Nos 181 and 183 and one in No 224 Group, No 182, in August 1943. These wings provided the essential chain of responsibility between the group commanders and the signals units within their group ... No 182 Wing took over the administration and technical control of all early warning equipment and of all permanent W/T and D/F stations in No 224 Group ... The main stations in No 224 Group were connected by a teleprinter network which included headquarters, advanced headquarters, Ramu, Cox's Bazaar, Dohazari, Chittagong, Fenny and Comilla. Comilla relayed to Agartala. Construction was also completed in 1943 of a standby transmitting and receiving station for the group headquarters, the receiving station also housing a standby switchboard. Two W/T channels were employed between group headquarters and advanced group headquarters in addition to the teleprinter link.

pp.268-269: Up to the end of 1943, field units were provided with W/T pack-sets, which were loaded into trucks when they were required to be moved. In 1944, however, a mobile signals unit system was introduced, similar to that introduced at this time in other theatres, under which specialist vehicles designed to meet the peculiar needs of the theatre were produced within the command and allocated, with personnel, in a 'ready to use' state to groups and wings ... Large consignments of British and American equipment were sent from the United Kingdom and then assembled at the base signals units. Much delay was caused, however, by difficulty in identifying packing cases. MSUs were fully mobile in all respects; they were robust and able to stand up to bad road conditions and heavy handling ... Static establishments in operational units in 3rd TAF were converted to mobile units, with the result that group and wing headquarters were self-contained and fully mobile. Three base signals depots (BSD), or units, provided the cadre for operational training under field conditions ...

Mobile signals units were introduced initially into the Bengal area in May 1944, by which time some 180 units of all types had been formed. These were made up as follows: Type 'A' (8 low power HF W/T channels) 4; Type 'B' (4 low power HF W/T channels 14; Type 'C' (4 very low power HF W/T channels) 2; Type 'D' (2 low power HF W/T channels) 7; Type 'E' (4 low power HF W/T reinforcement channels) 8; Type 'G' (2 very low power HF W/T reinforcement channels) 2; Type 'K' (1 very low power HF W/T channel) 26; Type 'L' (1 HF D/F channel) 7; Type 'M' (1 MF Beacon) 2; Type 'P' (2 VHF R/T channels) 57; Type 'Q' (1 VHF D/F channel) 57.

Both air transportable and mobile signals units were required for offensive operations planned for the end of 1944 and for 1945. Prototypes of a transportable equipment were produced at No 4 BSD Bombay, and when approved, construction was carried out at both No 4 and No 5 BSD Calcutta. Construction was 80 per cent complete in November 1944. To mount these operations it was first essential to make up the deficiencies of personnel and equipment in the MSUs of 3rd TAF, which amounted to 754 signals vehicles, 566 signals personnel and 254 non-signals personnel. An extensive signals vehicle production programme was begun at No 4 BSD, and a large percentage of the vehicle deficiencies had been made good by the end of November 1944. Personnel from incoming convoys were attached to No 7 BSU Sambre for a three weeks' acclimatisation and refresher course before proceeding to the 3rd TAF area.

p.270: A mobile signals servicing unit was built up to full establishment at No 7 BSU, and acted as a central servicing organisation for mobile signals units in No 221 Group.

pp.276-277: The three base signals units or depots which were formed towards the end of 1943 at Bombay, Calcutta, and at Sambre, were responsible for prototyping and producing specialist vehicles, special equipment, spares, etc; for the maintenance, overhaul, salvaging and reconditioning of equipment; for carrying out an air inspection service throughout the Command; for work of a development, research, and experimental nature; and for providing fitting and installation parties throughout the theatre.


I hope this helps.

Ian

[Ian Brown]

Steve,

Just in case there is any confusion, I should perhaps mention that No 7 BSU was located at Sambre, which is a village in the Belgaum district in the Karnataka area of western India. Belgaum is not a mis-spelling of Belgium!

[Dakota]

G'day

In October, 1944, No. 7 Base Signals Group was part of Air Command, South-East Asia's No. 225 Group (H.Q. at Bangalore). It was located at the aerodrome in Sambre which was adjacent to the right of the aerdrome at Begaum.

Cheers...Chris

[elfinblues]

Thank you, Ian and Chris. Very much appreciated. Ian - thanks so much for taking the time to type in all that info. I think it will quite likely take me a little time to digest it all and to fit it in with what I currently know, but it will be invaluable in adding detail to my account of his war. Thank you.

In the event that I can't locate any war diaries/ORBs for his units, or that they don't exist or survive, does anybody know of any other wartime accounts written up by other wireless mechanics who served in Burma/India/Bengal? Such accounts would, I hope, enable me to build a picture of what daily life might have been like for my grandfather. Many thanks in advance.

[Ian Brown]

Steve,

I probably have some accounts from wireless personnel around somewhere that might be of interest. I'm going to be away until mid-October so can't check right now, but do come back to me next month and I'll see if I can help.

[elfinblues]

That would be superb, thank you, Ian. Searches on the National Archives websites are not bringing up anything at all for 7BSU or 5781 MSU, which I'm quite sad about, so anything of that nature would be a real help. Thank you.

[Ian Brown]

Steve,

I suspect records for those units are probably contained within the relevant Wing ORB. That said, it's always worth looking at the indices just in case.

[elfinblues]

Ah - OK - thank you! New hope! I'm sorry, this must be a real beginner's question, but how do I find out which Wing his unit would have been attached to? A Wing name/number isn't mentioned in his service record; is there a way to find out?

[Resmoroh]

Elphinblues, Hi,

Your Grandfather’s hospitalisation locations (Secunderabad, Nilgiri Hills, and Kalimpong) are very far apart. Malcolm’s rafweb site lists all the 224 Grp Units as at Dec 44. Amongst them was RAF 61 Mobile Field Hospital - normally based at Chittagong. The history, or ORB, of that Unit may provide a few more clues!

HTH
Peter Davies

[Ian Brown]

Steve,

Try No 182 (Signals) Wing.

[Resmoroh]

Elfinblues, Hi,
Have a look at Post #6 in the AMES in India/Far East Thread. There's a link that will give you a great deal of background info on conditions in SEAC. It's a huge site, and some of the technical stuff is "heavy going", but well worth the read!!
HTH
Peter Davies

[elfinblues]

Thank you, Peter and Ian, once again. My apologies for taking a while to reply (I've been unwell for a few days) but am back on the case and will spend some time following the leads you've given me, so thank you again, very much indeed. I am finding that there are some phenomenally nice people in the RAF research community!

BTW, Peter, re my grandfather's hospitalisation locations, I fear that I may have not been as clear as I should have been. To clarify, what I know from his service record alone is that he spent time in "47 BGH" (which I believe stands for 47th British General Hospital). His record also shows a very close period of time is what looks like "68th IGH" (which I therefore take to mean 68th Indian General Hospital, though I don't know this for sure); the writing here is difficult to read, but I think that's what it says. From notes that he left, I know that he spent time in hospital in Secunderabad, and in recuperation at Nilgiri Hills, but I don't know to which of the hospital codes these relate, if they do - perhaps they don't? Re Kalimpong, I'm sorry - I was not clear there. I don't know either way if he was in Kalimpong for hospital treatment; it's just one of the very few captioned wartime photos that we have of him is captioned "Kalimpong", so we know he was there but we don't know why. But yes, the locations are far apart, and I would love to be able to explain them.

[Resmoroh]

elfinblues, Hi,
Tks for the good ACR!! The way the system works is that we try to answer your questions. You then become "An Expert" in whatever field. When a newcomer to the Forum asks questions relating to your particular expertise we all say "Wait until elfinblues reads this. There is the expert.". And so on!!"!!
The ORBs for BGH's may be in TNA. If you can't get to TNA then there are folk who can either tell you how to interrogate TNA on-line (I ain't one!!), or can do the job for you (this latter may involve small fees). The question of the ORBs of IGH's is above my pay-grade - but not of Jagan (OC this Forum) who, if he doesn't know will know who does know!!
HTH
Peter Davies