401020 - Unaccounted airman - 20-10-1940

[Henk Welting]

What caused the death of and/or what was the place of death registration for:

F/Lt William V. EMANUEL - 75652 - killed on active service.

Proposed aircraft loss for this day:

Blenheim I - L1467 - 600 Sqn - flew into high ground at night Hurst, near Richmond, Yorkshire.

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

[Amrit]

There appears to be some discrepancies about when L1467 crashed. Warner gives 20 Oct but this site states 20 Dec:

http://www.allenby.info/aircraft/planes/dales/l9034.html

as does:

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=14841

"Gentleman in Blue: 600 Squadron" has no incident for 20 Oct but confirms the loss of a Blenheim with Wilson and Holmes on 20 Dec (though it doesn't give a serial).

And no EMANUEL listed for 600 Squadron

A

[Dick]

Hi Henk
Warners "Blenheim" has the loss of L1467 but has no details of casualties beyond stating the belief that the crew died. Emanuel, 26, is registered at Kensington, W Central London.
Regards
Dick

[Dick]

Hi Amrit
Warner has a 600 loss on 20/12/40 but identifies it only as BQ-W. He has Wilson and Holmes as the casualties with Wilson being killed and Holmes succumbing to injuries later, he has no cause for the loss but places it as near Richmond in Yorkshire
Regards
Dick

[Amrit]

Cheers Dick, I should have looked in the next section of Warner. Doh!

So, do we think that there's been a mix up and the only crash was in December or two seperate incidents? The aforementioned site also states Richmond, where the October incident is suppossed to have occurred. As I said, no mention of an October incident in Gentlemen in Blue.

A

[Dick]

Hi Amrit
Depends what the serial of BQ-W was, but a mix-up of dates/incidents seems possible
Regards
Dick

[Amrit]

His sister was also killed:

Name: EMANUEL, LETITIA LOUISE EMMA
Initials: L L E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Age: 36
Date of Death: 20/10/1940
Additional information: M.A.; Air Raid Warden; of 34 Campden Hill Gardens. Daughter of Rachel Emanuel, of Oxford, and of the late Alfred Lewis Emanuel. Died at 34 Campden Hill Gardens.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: KENSINGTON, METROPOLITAN BOROUGH

Died of wounds from an earlier air-raid? The Times states that they both died "from enemy action" though the notices are a few days apart.

His obit: The Times, Thursday, Oct 31, 1940
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn31/amrit68/Emanuel.jpg


A

[Henk Welting]

Emanuel must have been an air raid casualty.
Is it possible that Wilson (20.12) and Holmes (dow 26.12) were killed on a Beaufighter ?
Regards,
Henk.

[Dick]

Hi Henk
It is possible that they were on a Beaufighter. 600 Sqn switched to Beaufighters in Sep '40 and moved to Catterick, Yorkshire, on 12/10/40. Warner identifies the a/c only by it's Sqn Code BQ-W and this could be where the mix-up comes from as even by 20/10/40 the Blenheims should have gone. In Dec '40 they would have been long gone! I don't have the Air Britain L-Serials to look up L1467 but by 20/10/40 it may not have been with 600 Sqn if it is a Blenheim.
The death of Holmes,26, is registered at Richmond, Yorkshire but I couldn't find Wilson
Regards
Dick

[Amrit]

Both Gentlemen in Blue, and Men of the Battle of Britain, confirm that it was a Blenheim.

A

[Henk Welting]

AB L-Serials for L1467 (Blenheim I): 64/5 OTU/600:
Flew into hill descending in cloud on night interception, Hurst, near "Richmond", Yorks., 20."10".40

Henk.

[Rich Allenby]

Blenheim L1467 crashed near Richmond on 20th Dec 1940. I have L1467's AM1180 which proves the date as being this. The date of 14 Oct 1940 is an error in AB S book.

Blenheim L9034 did not crash near Richmond but I believe, from memory when i researched the incident, was written off down south somewhere.

I made the same error when I created the webpage as linked to on here and hence L9034. I could do to change the file name.


Sadly this does not answer Henks original query ! sorry !

rich

[bjperth]

I have been reading all the posts re missing flyers, and as I am reseaching someone who I believe may have flown in the 600, I was wondering in anyone has the book if you could see if a PO Joseph Albert Lawless Johnson was mentioned. I am in Australia and I am going to see if I can locate a copy here, I will get it frm the UK if I am unable to get it here. Any assistance would be greatly appreciAted

[jossleclercq]

hello bjperth,

No mention of 'your' Johnson in the index of names at the end of the book : there's a F.H. Johnson (page 435) and a P/O S.F. Johnson (page 481).

Joss

[dennis_burke]

is this the man you seek?

Air Ministry, 30th November, 1943
The KING has been graciously pleased to approve the following awards: —
Distinguished Flying Cross
Pilot Officer Joseph Albert Lawless JOHNSON
(Can/J.18070), Royal Canadian Air Force, No. 108 Squadron.

and from

http://www.airforce.ca/wwii/ALPHA-JO.html

JOHNSON, P/O Joseph Albert Lawless (J18070) - Distinguished Flying Cross - No.108 Squadron - Award effective 23 November 1943 as per London Gazette dated 30 November 1943 and AFRO 166/44 dated 28 January 1944. Born in Ponoka, Alberta, 22 February 1915; home in Edmonton. Enlisted in Calgary. Trained at No.2 ITS (graduated 26 February 1941), No.5 EFTS (graduated 3 May 1941) and No.10 SFTS (graduated 8 August 1941). Commissioned 1943.
During the recent period of intensive air activity over Sicily this officer destroyed three enemy aircraft and probably destroyed one more. Since his arrival in this theatre of war he has completed a large number of operational missions and has at all times displayed exceptional keenness and determination.



regards

Dennis

[bjperth]

Hi Dennis & Joss, thanks so much for this info, greatly appreciated. Prior to this we had no idea of DOB or where he lived.
Fantastic assistance

Regards

Barbara

[jonheyworth]

Lawrence Henry Pearson 971583, died of pneumonia

[jonheyworth]

Alexander Henry Allan 10213 , attached to Number 2 Signals School, was admitted dangerously ill to the RAF Officer's hospital, Torquay , on 7 October, , where he died of hyperplasia

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

401020 - Unaccounted Airmen - 20-10-1940

From Henk's List -

UK
ALLAN, Alexander Henry - Wng/Cdr - 10213 - RAF.
Torquay Cemetery and Extension, Devon.
Died of a dangerous illness ?

DRAKE, John Harry Thomas - AC2c - 977686 - RAFVR.
Southport (Duke Street) Cemetery, Lancashire.
Fell off the running board of the Lorry that he was travelling on.

EMANUEL, William Vernon - F/Lt - 75652 - RAFVR.
Golders Green Crematorium, Middlesex.
This airman and his only sister were killed in an Air Raid on London.

PEARSON, Lawrence Henry - Lac - 971583 - RAFVR.
Harrogate (Stonefall) Cemetery, Yorkshire.
Died of natural causes.


From CWGC -

NORWAY
GANE, Sidney Russell - P/O - 42117 - RAF - MiD.
Trondheim (Stavne) Cemetery, Norway.
Blenheim IV - L9453 - 248 Sqn.

YEMEN
BARNITT, Heslop Miles Frederick ( New Zealander) - F/O - 40981 - RAF - DFC.
Maala Memorial No.2, Yemen.
Blenheim IV - T2112 - 203 Sqn.

UK
COPCUTT, Richard - Sgt - 581146 - RAF.
Blenheim IV - P6952 - 248 Sqn.

GREEN, Maurice David - P/O - 78363 - RAFVR.
STOCKS, Norman James - Sgt - 552636 - RAF.
These two airmen were crew of Blenheim IV - L9453 - 248 Sqn.

The above three airmen are all commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial, Surrey.

FRIEDEMANN, Albert - GAF.
EBELING, Rudolf - GAF.
These two German Airmen rest at Cannock Chase German Military Cemetery, Staffordshire.
Cause of death ?

MAIERL, Franz - GAF.
Lenham Cemetery, Kent.
Cause of death ?

Alex

[Andy Marden]

FRIEDEMANN, Albert - GAF.
EBELING, Rudolf - GAF.
These two German Airmen rest at Cannock Chase German Military Cemetery, Staffordshire.

Friedemann was the pilot of Bf109E-4 2780 "Yellow 1", shot down over London by a 41 Sqn Spitfire.
Ebeling was crew of Bf110C-5 2228/L2+MR of 7(F)./LG2, shot down over Thames Estuary.



MAIERL, Franz - GAF.
Lenham Cemetery, Kent.
Cause of death ?

Pilot of Bf109E-7 2059 "Brown 8" of 3(J)./LG2, shot down by a 74 Sqn Spitfire over Kent.